...she also posts at the Big Day Out forums, and gets pretty severely nailed there too. http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/me...vpost?id=374018

Ouch... pretty harsh comments on that forum.... Liz you must really piss them off a lot.

Actually I haven't been there in ages but returned today to get people to sign up to this forum.

and so far I've had one person sign up, now I just have to get more people to sign up.

If anyone can do it, its me.

I find it funny though, really funny.

u must be a fan ehh :)

I think the question is who isn't a fan of Liz Shaw getting slagged off.

What people fail to realise is that it is just an image.

It is the foundation for my media analysis 204 research essay.

"HOW DOES THE MEDIA IMPACT ON THE WAY IN WHICH PEOPLE ARE PORTRAYED AND RECEIVED BY THE PUBLIC?"

I am using craccum magazines, and several forums as the basis for the case study.

So this is actually of great use to me which is why I am continuing to engage in mindless adolescent flame wars.

lol nice one

you see, last year I only actually ever intended to write that one letter into Craccum but it exploded into this "whats Liz Shaw got to say this week" sort of thing.

I have been quite annoyed about how Craccum only portrays me in a certain light and tonight when I sent Stian an article for next week's craccum I hit him up about it.

You see he promised me that I would have a 300 word column. I also hit him up about only publishing my non serious articles that are whinges.

i may as well get something out of this but the thing is, I don't believe people hate me. I believe it is jsut that they are sick of me constantly being there, constantly having to have my say.

But I don't care, I live my life for me, not for anyone else and if they can't get no satisfaction then that is their problem not mine.

Sorry I'm a little antsy tonight abuot the whole thing.

i dont hate you, hell i dont even know you

Well supposedly people do. I think it is all hype and rumours though in actual fact. Especially when it comes to what I have written in Craccum.

Hell I have my own thread though.

Youre just really good at pissing people off

Since youre not going to accept that Im not going to stop dwnldin, Im not going to reply in the Copyright thread, I do still appreciate all that youve done here though.

No I am not going to start accepting it because it is illegal and something needs to be done.

Maybe the idea that synopsis suggested of having booths in stores where you copy songs to a CD is a good idea.

But you are still going to get those who would download illegally and for free.

I have no problem with people downloading from sites where they have to pay a small fee for each song, what i have a problem with is theft and it is theft to download for free.

Don't we already have a thread for this discussion? ;)

Anyway, actually Liz seem to be a pretty moderate debator as forumers go. I know places where even this thread would have degenerated into name calling by now.

Shit thank you. I do try my hardest never to get into personal attacks. There are two reasons why, well actually 3:
*I have been debating all my life, since I was 8 years old. I remember my first debate, it was at school, it was about school uniforms and I was against them and this is a quote from me from when I was 8 years old, "I am against school uniforms because it means you are stuck wearing the same thing every day". The rebut was from one of the guys I sat with and was "but there are the weekends". just thought that was a little bit of interesting information about me.
*I like to debate a topic.
*to get into politics you must be good at getting into debates and discussing topics otherwise there is no point.

I have actually left several forums because the forum members are not able to debate without launching into personal attacks.

There is a famous quote:

"A weak argument hides behind personal attacks".

The link didn't work.

Yeah after it got to 20 pages I deleted it. I have got it on my computer. I can email it to anyone who would like to look at it.

20 pages.. argh.

yes but if you have read Craccum then you will understand how I open my mouth and then there is an explosion of opinions floating around to discredit me.

I've been following the whole saga from the beginning.. I don't want to be horrible about it, but I can understand why people get annoyed with your letters. A lot of the time your arguments aren't particularly good. They have no structure, and it's often hard to see exactly what your point is.

I can understand that isobel.

What people fail to realise is that only my letters without structue and my letters with very strong opinions are published. Craccum have not once published a letter that portrays me as someone with intelligence who can write well and who can write with structure.

This is a fault with the media. It only portrays people in a certain light. It ommits important details and is not participatory. This means that there is no actual deliberation going on and things are easily misinterpreted.

This usually only happens with print media as there are no expressions and people cannot clarify what they actually mean.

As you will see my debating style and writing style is much different on an internet forum, because it is interactive thus I can clarify my points if people disagree.


A side note is that this whole Craccum saga has spurred my media analysis 204 research essay topic "in what ways does the media portray people in a certain light?" I am using myself & Craccum, Paul Holmes and John Campbell as the case studies for this assignment. Therefore these fights have not all been pointless. My writing has improved considerably since last year.

Yes, I can see that and I understand your point.

Surely, though, they're published your letters in their original state?

Is this because you haven't written them a letter that is intelligent and well structured and written?

You can't really blame them though, Craccum freely admits that they are a biased publication.

And it makes things far more interesting. A heated flame war is usually more interesting to the public than a calm debate.

See what I mean about misinterpretation.

They do publish my letters in their original state but they only publish the letters that portray me as someone who is unable to write, has confused ideas and is a mockery to the university. THey don't publish the letters that portray me as an intelligent university student who can write, who can form coherent arguments and who does talk about things other than clothes.

Here is an example of a piece of writing of mine that would never be published in Craccum that does credit me and do me justice:

You know, I read in the weekend a quote from an article about the driver who died at Easter weekend in herald on Sunday, the quote went along the lines of “I will die in a car crash young” and “I drive at 200kms quite frequently”. I was horrified to read this. Why are people like this boy, now dead still getting drivers licenses? It is a known fact that most crashes happen under the age of 25 and are typically caused by males. No sexism intended, you just have to look at insurance premiums which are considerably higher for males under 25 to see why.

Many people complain when they receive a fine and I keep on thinking to myself, you break the rules and then complain about the consequences. I’m sorry but you deserve it.

The road toll has been the worst at Easter time for 11 years now and I have to say it’s a tragedy. After saying that I then think about the ways of resolving it and the solutions seem quite clear to me:
*Raise the driving age
*Instead of investing billions of dollars in advertising campaigns how about investing money in police officers, in more speed cameras. Then people will get caught and will think twice before acting.

This brings me to the next issue I have a problem with, and that is crime. The labour politicians keep on saying that crime is on a decrease. I don’t believe this for one second. There has been an increase in murders over the last two years. There was a news item on 3 news about a man who won’t report robberies to the police because he “is too scared to” and “its low priority”. Now it is no wonder that crime is “declining” when crimes aren’t being reported.

This does not paint a good image for the government and yet Labour continually gets voted in. Are you all blind to see that they are having detrimental effects on New Zealand. Do something before it gets much worse.



I have sent this letter and hopefully it will be published but should it not, at least you had the chance to see it for yourself.

To your question from your last post. I send craccum about 5 letters a week, that is how many things I have to say each week, they did print a good one in the summer issue to which nobody replied to, it was in reference to the tsunami and was structured well.

If this is the case, then you should be more careful about what you send them.. Send them one really good letter a week rather than five not great/average ones.

It'll be much harder for them to make you look like a fool then.

Anyways, it's late and thundering and I see lightning.. Have uni tomorrow morning so I should get to bed shortly.

Who's this Jennifer Lorimer girl that's sent a couple of letters to Craccum in reply to your ones?

I was in your FTVMS 100 class last year, was she somebody from that class as well?

Oh believe me I intend to. Sometimes I am very riled up when I write a letter into Craccum, usually there is one dud letter and the rest are alright.

I am not going to be made a mockery of this year although I was secretly pleased that my letter got 9 responses in the 3rd issue of Craccum this year.


It will be interesting to see what is published tomorrow if there is indeed a craccum, can someone please clarify?

As you will also see, every argument, other than the downloading argument has been backed up with evidence rather than flaky opinions that are very biased and uninformed.

That is unfortunate that you have uni tomorrow. I have no uni this week as my lectures are only on Monday and Tuesday, therefore because of the public holiday there will be no tutorials this week for me. I do have to go in to uni tomorrow to pick up an issue of Craccum.

I have no idea who Jennifer is, she is someone who hates me and there is no reason to. People are often shocked when I say I am Liz Shaw, the same one who is portrayed as a bitch in Craccum.

Have a good sleep and I shall look forward to more of my letters being published in Craccum.

Mm, I think she goes a bit over the top with her criticism, quite personal and nasty.

Argh, hope it's not still raining in the morning..

Night!

To be honest I think she is somewhat threatened by me. Obviously having been in a class with me you will have seen how confident I am, some people misinterpret that as arrogance when really it is not. They are thus threatened by it. She may also be suffering from low self esteem hence her personal attacks.

Goodnight.

flaky and biased on whose part?

I thought that was clear, if you look at the letters in Craccum of mine that have been published they are biased and don't have evidence backing up those opinions.