as everyone knows, in the united states, a woman by the name of Schiavo is being kept on life support, when really she should be left to slip away.

An article states that in New Zealand this could not happy, a person's life, should they lose the ability to do things, will become their next of kin's responsibility. This means the next of kin can make the decision.

I find this wrong, I think that if someone has stated when they are healthy that if they were ever in a vege like state they would like life support turned off, their wishes should be respected and honoured. Otherwise it is a mockery and an insult to that person.

I know that if I couldn't do anything, I wouldn't want to live, as long as I have my mind that is fine but without a mind you are not a person, or at least not hte same person you once were.

Wow you really are good at inciting discussion, Id like to think Im pro euthanasia as well. But its a very touchy subject, Id get into more detail but Im heading off to bed. So I will try to later.

hahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahhahahhahahah rotflmao thank you, I like to think I am, I mean you just have to read the last 3 issues of Craccum to realise that my one comment has actually spurred on an active debate about clothing issues.

As for being pro life, most people are I would have to say but I guess the great philosophical question in this case goes along the lines of, "at what point can you serve no purpose on this earth" or "at what point do you become someone else" or lastly "at what point is life not worth living".

IMO - Is him/her life gonna be better after the treatment? Or its gona be a life long struggle and would the person be dependent on others for daily tasks etc.

Considering this, I would let my self go if my life would be a living hell.

But the thing is that you personally wouldn't be aware of anything because your state is that vegetative.

I've always been in favour of euthanasia, mainly because I used to volunteer at a Hospice that dealt with alot of cancer patients.
Death is always messy, at least euthanasia is a relatively clean one.

usually I am against euthinasia but this case has made me reconsider.

There are so many things to consider when euthinasing someone.

1)The guilt associated with it, I think that is the most important. I once had to have a cat of mine euthinased, she was young, only three years old. That was one year ago that it happened and I still carry the guilt. In the case of a person the family would carry the guilt but it would be that much worse because it is not an animal we are talking about, it is a human.

2)Scientific discoveries, there may be a way say like 2 weeks after it has happened that they could recover. This is wht one of my friends pointed out to me on Tuesday and I tend to agree with it.

3)It is also in a form murder, but then again so is abortion and abortion is legal. Legal murder, doesn't that just have so many negative connotations.

4)What would the person in this vegetative state want, I mean it is very well and good to say when healthy that you would want the life support turned off it you were ever in that situation but I imagine it would be much different in reality. I imagine that if you were dying there would be a part of you that would want to live, even though you would be enduring pain.

5)Then there is the issue of fate, that is a miracle could happen, like they could switch of the life support and then miraculously you make a recovery. That would show the strength of someone.

I am neutral on this issue as a whole, it is a very subjective thing that can only be assessed on a case by case basis. There can be no general way of doing things.

In the case of Schiavo though, I've seen the pictures of a healthy brain and the amount that her brain is damaged and she should be euthinased. If she was physically vegetative then it would be different but she doesn't have her mind and without the mind there is no point to existence on this earth.

That is just my opinion.

I don't think that in this case it's about euthanasia. The women is dead. She is no longer Terri. Her forebrain has already atrophied, withered away. Her family claims that she can smile, that only due to whats left of her lower brain reflexes. The doctors, brain surgeons, aren't blind to ethics. When u consider that her family is just propping up an empty hulk, it is as grotesque and violating as digging up someones grave and tormenting the corpse.

The SA article on this worth a read.

I have been thinking about this issue a little bit more and have come up with something regarding the health resources in Florida.

Why is it that a brain dead woman who cannot survive without a feeding tube and life support is being kept alive. Doesn't that prove that she should not be living.
Not only this but she has been in this bed for 15 years, I don't know what beds are like in the states but because she has a bed it means that someone else misses out on a bed, someone who probably has a chance of survival and who needs it.

I think she should be let slip away and that is why I am in agreemet with the supreme court's decision. THe parents are trying to get the feeding tube reinstated but the supreme court has already refused to hear the case once before so it is unlikely they will hear it this time.

I do feel sorry for the parents, they are losing their daughter but 15 years is a long time and they should accept that she is not going to make a recovery.

Well the Supreme Court has told everyone to piss off, yet again.

What a waste of 15 years of doctors resources, time and space.
I feel for the husband and the family, but the husband and court is right, who would want to live that way? It is prolonged torture. and "slipping away" by starvation? We don't let fataly injured animals and horses suffer in that way, do we? As horrible as it sounds, a quick death for this woman would be a mercy killing, she has already suffered for 15 years. The parent must let her go.

I respect life and believe that life is about passion, love, a sense of contribution, curiousity, determination, feeling worthwhile, trying things out, being happy and enjoying things? Can this woman do or feel any of these things? As Liz said, it should be Case by case basis. The case for this one is obvious.

well I believe that based on the media's portrayal she doesn't know she is living this way because she is that badly brain damaged - she can't eat without the feeding tube, this backs this up.

I think she should have life support turned off as well and if she continues to live with life support then so be it.

An injection would be a good way to go but then it is legal murder of the highest degree and the parents would probably go to court and sue the doctor who administered it.

In some countries you can only get a mercy killing if you are in a state where you can take the lethal injection yourself, that is, without assistance and there must be two doctors approving of it.

The whole world can see that she should be left to rest in peace and if the parents truly love their daughter then they would see that too. What they are doing by keeping her alive is being selfish.

I suggest they undergo serious counselling because yes drangonorchid, this is a waste of resources (time, staff and beds)

Should the media actually be covering this issue? I just saw its coverage on tv3 and the words "death watch" were used.

In a very hideous way we actually are watching her die.

This is morbid.

what a brilliant cartoon, i love it. :P

My dad told me when I was on the phone to him that he heard on national radio this morning that Schiavo knows that she is not being fed and is responding to people. Apparently she has also got the movement of her arms. Also apparently nobody has tried to rehabilitate her.

Now this further knowledge, if true, changes things a little bit for me.

If, like one doctor said, there is the chance of her being rehabilitated then she should be.

Now, my dad also told me that Micheal Schiavo whom she married and had children with is set to get $1 million US when she passes on. This is from her will or life insurance.

Now it seems a bit suspicious to me, maybe that is the real reason why he wants her to do.

It also makes me question the kind of care they receive in the united states, the doctors shoudl be trying to rehabilitate her otherwise it shows that they are uncompassionate, uncaring and selfish. Their health system in the states is worse than ours.

Even in the best case scenario (which still isn't very good, considering her cerebral cortex is liquid IIRC), she's still at a point where she's better off dead. She is not, nor will she ever be, sentient. I've never liked the idea of keeping a brain dead person alive for the benefit of friends and relatives who like to sit around and kiss an animated corpse.

Also, I hope they remember to bury her face down, so that if she tries to dig her way out of the grave she'll dig downwards.

yeah an existence is pointless if you are brain dead.

What about all those people with down syndrome who can't do anything like work, reproduce or interact socially.

They can do all those things, just not very well. However, the eugenicist in me (the sensible kind, not the 'kill other races' kind) says such people should be aborted before birth, but treated decently if they are born.

thank god someone else thinks it too, I thought I was the only one.

the thing is though, can you tell that a featus has down syndrome before they are born? I didn't think you could but I would adopt out a child with down syndrome.

Yes. The problem is, no civilized country would, or should, force a mother to abort their child. Many would want to keep the child regardless of the disability. There are other solutions, but I can't be bothered going into those.

It probably comes down to tolerance, I wouldn't keep a child with down syndrome because I am intolerant and have a plan for my children.

Would transplanting cells be able to fix the problem of down syndrome? If it is a chemical imbalance then you would think that it would be able to.

I don't think that people should be forced to abort children, is is the woman's decision. Its shocking to see that people are trying to get rid of abortion so that the woman has to have the child.

Why is it that in this day and age we are trying to control others? I guess we always have been trying to though but now it is in different areas.

Down Syndrome is chromosomal, in this case, an extra 21st chromosome (thank you high school biology). I'm don't think you can fix it, unless science lets you do something in utero.

The best solution that I can see is genetic screening with artificial insemination (as read/seen in Gattaca). This is a long way off though.

I think eventually science will advance so that it is possible.

Speaking of chromosomes, did anyone else see that article in the Herald earlier this week about how men actually have a chromosome missing and that is why they are so different from females. The extra chromosome that women have is supposedly "a whole other programme" according to the herald's columnist.

It is quite interesting that we finally have an answer to why men are so different, finally science can explain it.

The article also made claims that men are set to die out before women do, this is going to be disasterous for the human race if it is the case.

Some people don't believe it but the evidence does stack up, females live longer, and there are 51% females as opposed to 49% males. It is not a huge difference at this point in time but over time it will be.

Without males the human race will die out, could this be what will kill us?

Oh noes!

Ok this is poor taste humour but this thread has already gone to hell

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/

I read an interesting column reagrding the issue of life or death on the new zealand herald website http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=4...jectID=10117118

It is worth reading and makes some excellent points about whether or not Shiavo should have had the feeding tube removed.

I'm bored of Terry Whatshername already, we need a new vegetable to wring our hands over.

She's dying anyway. End of drama.

Did any of your check out the link I posted?

Its pretty damn funny, but I think Im going to hell for laughing at it.

*stifles huge belly laughs*

I'm definitely going to hell for that.

Stem cells can save her life I think. The cells in her brain are damaged but if they transplanted stem cells into her brain she would have ea shot at recovery.

The worst that could happen is that it won't work and she will die, that is the forecast for her life at this point in time.

How old is she anyway!!

If it was up to us then no body would wanna die, earth would become human pollution and all the crap that comes with it.

She is 41 years old. She has two children who would be at least 16 as it was 15 years ago that she went into this state.

I just find it funny (funny as in strange) that the states is pro life and yet this is an obvious solution that would save her life but nobody has mentioned it in the states because they are against stem cells.

The states are against stem cells because of the question of abortion and many of them being anti abortion. However you can also get stem cells from umbilical cords and I think living humans. Based on that there is no reason not to carry out the research in the states.

There are ways to save Terri's life but they won't be figured out for 5 years and by that time it will be too late.

I don't believe they have tried everything, in fact I don't believe they have tried anything. If people want her to live they will raise the money to get her to China and in the meantime reinstate the feeding tube.

I hear they're considering hooking the Pope up to a feeding tube, Terri must be hella angry about that... :P

It depends on if the parents or husband have told her.

How is this for weird, I just checked out a link and I share my birthday with Terri Shiavo, 3rd December.

This is scary.

Stem cells might regenerate brain cells, but it won't restore her memories, and without memories and experiences, theres not much point.

but imagine if she became a clean slate, she could be a testbed for all sorts of experiments....

As there is nothing to lose I think they should do it. It could save her life.

Sure she would have to get to China to have it done but if they reinstate the feeding tube there is a good chance she can survive.

it was bulimia ms shiavo had, not anorexia. finding out she shares her birthday with me makes me feel sick. Here is the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo