Yesturday at a school in Minnesota, Jeff Weiss who was described as a gothic loner shot 5 students, a guard, his two grandparents and a teacher before killing himself.

A bit of his background is taht his dad committed suicide 4 years ago and his mum is in a hospital becaue of brain damage cased by a car accident.

What the fuck is the world coming to?

This school has 3 security guards and they were powerless to stop him.

It doesn't mention his age but I would say he is about 16, what the fuck is a 16 year old doing with a gun?

why are we disscussing issues from US of <beep> A ???
there are others out there to be criticised.... !!!

because I saw the front page of the herald today and was really horrified.

Its the media i tell ya

Heres the link

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5305359.html

It is a point worth discussing.

The states simply need to cut down on their love of firearms

This movie is a good start to spreading the message

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0288439/

A well armed populace can overthrow a corrupt government (and I mean really corrupt, the current US administration doesn't count... think dictatorships) if necessary, and makes a country extremely difficult to occupy for foreign powers (eg. Iraq). If that means more gruesome deaths for school children, so be it!

Yes the government in the united states does need to cut down the use of firearms but the government is highly corrupt.

Just how easy in the states is it to get a gun? I mean here in NZ you have to register and belong to a firearms agency. What has prompted so many people in the states to want guns and don't say safety because guns only make it more dangerous.

It is safety... whether or not they are more safe with guns than without (I'd say some are and some aren't), safety is most likely the main reason people buy guns in the states.

Culture of fear + easier access = more guns.

I can understand that.

The fault is not just in having access to guns. I mean I have access to knives but it doesn't mean I will turn it onto people. This means the issue is also psychological and maybe there need to be psychological evaluations done before people are permitted to get guns and/or maybe they are not allowed to carry more than a certain amount of ammunition at a time.

it was pretty close to me seeing as i am from the states and Minnesota.

the kid was moved from his family in the capital of Minnesota. His father committed suicide and his mom was in a car accident. his family thought it was best to put him in on a native american reservation so he went from a town of 2 million or so to a town of 200. he didnt have much of a say in the matter and i guess that corrupted him.

the news here says that he told his friends about it all the time and they didnt do much because most everyone was scared of him.

The problem there is that guns are legal for the general populus to use to defend themselves with. Here in NZ you have to register and have a good reason for owning a gun ,otherwise it is illegal.
In the US, many shops sell bullets, and the reason I bet that they have made it legal is purely econimic - it's so that they can continue to have a market for the weapons and their excessive military research, and make money off people... they also must keep the "fear culture" alive, so that it seems reasonable to own a gun. That is where the media comes in... "Own a gun, protect yourselves and your family"... the gun he used probably had belonged to his dadm who kept it to "protect him and his family" (oh, and kill himself).

I beleive in freedom, but not in freedom to own a gun, because it is not beneficial for the majority of people and society as a whole.

That is sick and what I derive from that is that the americans care more about money than anything else.

The thing is how are they supposed to make money if there are people constantly being killed.

Also isn't Bush supposed to be a conservative, that is that he is also very pro life so based on his political views shouldn't he make laws making it harder to obtain guns. It seems he is quite contradictory and doesn't know what he stands for.

Marshy, that sux that his friends knew about this, but if they knew then why didn't they report it to the police or something? Were they at the school that day? I read that he didn't have any friends and was a loner who was mocked by other students.

cannot generalise like that.
it is inaccurate, becasue not all americans think like that, it is a select few who are creating the arms, or who would benefit from the selling of the arms!

pro life, yeah right! Liz, that is a very good point!

Thanks for joinin bro

Dont let any anti-american comments here discourage you, we dont live in the states and therefore dont know what the situation is like, ignorance breeds ignorance.

When I lived in Canada I saw what it was like to live on a Res, its quite a tough life, I feel for the kid now.

while I am feeling feisty and like attacking Bush based on his actions I would also like to point out that he sends troops over to Iraq to kill people.

His political decisions seem to provide more evidence that he is not in fact pro life they they do that he is pro life.

I did say that it was what I derived from that.

it just seems that there are very contradictory events happening in the states.

We have Bush arguing to keep Schiavo alive and then we have laws in the states making it easy to get guns.

Now, the school in Minnesota has security guards, there have been massacres in the past so shouldn't every school in the states have security guards.

Another way of preventing incidences like this happening in the future would be to have a button in each part of the room (that is one on each wall) that immediately links to the police. This would make it so much easier for the victims (injured or just emotional victims) to get something done and would probably lead to less people being killed should this incident happen again elsewhere.

Also, Welcome to the Marshy from Menisotta, how did you find this site? I hope you find we are not all ignorant, and we welcome different cultures, opinions and people from all walks of life. It's true, as NZders, we really don't know what it's like to live in the US, but with all the "westernising" of the world, I can't imagine it's too far off from living here in NZ.

Fez, i'm not anti American, I'm anti Bush/using economic selfishness as a reason for implementing things, but making it seem like there are humanitarian reasons for doing it.

Some good points Liz about there being contradictory messages with Bush.
Sorry Liz, but I also have to say, we had a fire alarm in the school I'm a teacher in training at the other day. They cannot find the student who caused that false alarm, and it wasted a whole lot of school time, while we stood in the hot mouldering sun of the netball courts. Can you imagine how much police time, and school time would be wasted it there was such a system of buttons in schools. Also a gun shot is instantaneous. All those people who died, would still be dead by the time the police arrived. The only solution is NO GUNS.

Yes that is a good point but the school in question had security guards, one of whom was gunned down.
The school in question also had metal detectors.

Yes it would potentially cost the armed services a lot of money but in New Zealand if you call an out then you get charged unless it is an actual dire emergency.

What about a key, you turn a key and it links in with the system or a swipe card that links in with the system. The reason I suggest this is that people can hear when you are talking on the mobile phone but they can't see what you are doing in the corner of a room or under your desk.

Because its legal to own firearms, some people will buy them just for the sake of it, a very few for malicious intent. But then the rest of the people realise this, and go buy their own guns, whether for protection, or just to feel that they are on a level playing field with their neighbour/workmate/joe blog.

If it suddenly became legal to own firearms in NZ, u would want one too since every tard and their dealer would be buying a gun. Whether they use it or not, the psychological pressure along would influence the public into owning guns.

Speaking of Marshy and the School Massacre bit

Heres the board where he is co-admin.

Seems Minnesota had a near-school shooting and it was even closer to home for him.

http://www.allducks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3899

It all come down to the availbilty of guns in the states. If guns were freely availble to purchase here in nz we would have shootings here as well.

Here is weise journal, in case you wanna read it
http://www.livejournal.com/users/weise/