With Tamehere's comments in the media recently I am very impressed with him. This is coming from somebody who hates labour and who hates their policies. Since he has been in the media it has actually accentuated how rediculous some National policies are.

I would like to see him become Leader of Labour as I like him because of his strong voice and outspoken nature.

He has struck a chord with me.

I am still voting National. I don't want Helen Clark to be prime minister but if he launched a coup and took over the labour party there is a good chance I would vote them.

At this point in time Don Brash is my prefrred prime minister and is the lesser of two evils.

Come on John, take over Labour, I beg you.

Not just yet - Hel should stay in power for now.

what makes you say that? I don't trust her in the slightest but I do trust Tamahere and think with his strength he would be a good leader. It would be interesting to see a Maori leader such as himself.

Aha! well if his outburst was a political strategy to gain personal support, it has worked!

I think that he should probably leave the labour party. His views don't really coincide with theirs on a lot of issues. Then he could run a presidential campaign against Helen. :clap:

She's doing great with what she has, it's not her fault her predecessors were cock-smokers.

Oh and Miss Clark has helped me out. She's a good lady who makes mistakes, she'll have my vote. John Tamihere would make a great leader too but I see no urgent need for that change.

Definitely a political strategy to show his ass off. I say he should stay in the family.

i dont see any evidence recently that suggests you cant trust helen clark. you might not agree with her, but she continues to put her money where her mouth is. And which comments, liz, are you talking about? it couldnt be the insults he has flung around at his colleagues, because that would be most hypocritical of you. he needs to argue the point clearly. furthermore, i saw him on close up last nite talking about 'fighting for males, particularly the young males. Heterosexual males, i mean.'

That is a fairly crude idea, and highly offense to his liberal buddies. why should a politicain endeavour to help only heterosexual people? thats failry dark age, dont you think? does this correspond with him being outspoken? if it does, he should keep it on the down low, coz hes gonna get a pop in the moouth otherwise.

he just took a big fat tumble as far as i can tell.

I like the fact that Helen has balls.

She she pretty much told the states to fuck off about Iraq, I cheered.

No there is not evidence that suggests you can't trust helen clark, not recently anyway but there has been in the past. Paintergate, corngate.

I don't trust helen clark not to launch us into a dictatorship. I think given the chance she would do this.

I thought that Tamahere's comments were funny.

Anyway I'll never vote labour but I think Tamahere would make a good leader.

Really? you actually believe, if, given a chance, our prime minister would turn this country into a dictatorship? that is pure speculation, and considering you no nothing about her personally, i dont think its fair comment either. And surely, tamaheres comments being funny does not equate to him being impressive.

i savagely disagree with the idea that 'paintergate' as you have coined it, is an example of helen clark being distrustful. given the circumstances, she was trying to help a worthy cause, and instead of declining she found a different solution. So she didnt paint a painting, who really cares? Clinton stayed in power after sexual relations in the oval office.

And as for corngate, thats a whole load of drivel, and nicky hager is complete, decietful waste of space. he fabricates entire stories. Fez you know how stefan was in iraq? i told him wat nicky hager allegeed the troops were doing over there, hes was fucked off, 'under cover missions killing civillians?' please. Nicky hager is so discredited, hes beneath contempt. corngate was balls. next.

Yes I really believe that and yes I have made sepculation.

I do not think corngate was a fabrication and I do not think that putting your name on someone else's painting is something small. It is wrong in my opinion.

and your opinion is based on what exactly? i have just outlined why nicky hager is a waste of space, perhaps you could counter that with another wonderful insight? and in the circumstances, how is the painting deal such a big deal? really, if shes donating to charity, isnt that whats more important? and you did not address wat i said, does that one insignificant event really mean helen clark 'cant be trusted?'

i think the correct grammer would bee 'yes i was speculating.'

I do not have enough knowledge of nicky hager to answer on that so i won't.

I do not trust helen clark on the two examples I gave you and I do not like helen clark for several reasons.

One of them being the smoking laws (sure I like smoking outside but its a freedom issue).
I do not like Helen Clark based on the prostitution reform bill (though it does keep them safer and off the dole but it is immoral).
I do not trust helen clark for another reason, this is the recent debacle over cameras in parliament.

oh yeah i see now. thats right, coz she single handedly wrote all that legislation, and bares all responsibility. can you not see that, if you do not have any knowledge about nicky hager, then using his accusations to form your opinions on helen clark is really just a tad silly? im not saying you have to like helen clark, but if you're going to talk about it in here, you have to actually justify yourself, properly. Smoking, well smoking i whole heartedly despise, and the stupid arguments about 'its about freedom' are flawed in the fact that smokers, who spend millions a year collectively on cigarettes, are in fact addicted to it. How can you be free to choose not to do something if you're addicted to doing it?

im not aware of a single smoker who is realy glad they started smoking, nor of one who likes spending all that damn money. furthermore, with all your research, you shold know that helen clark did not write that legislation, is not minister of health and is only one voice in the party when it comes to paliament voting.


and, if you would, answer the question about whether you can honestly assert that helen clark would take over this country if she could? i think even her most die hard opponents know thats a crock of shit.

and if prositutes are, as you so eloquently phrase it 'kept off the dole', and you hate welfare, why is prostitution legalisation so bad? you know and i know you cant stop people paying for sex, and there is no purpose in outlawing it, because it takes away the rights of the prostitute.

Ok sorry Liz but thats frickin hilarious

:hilarious:

Firstly Toby, please do not put words into my mouth. I know that Helen Clark does not single handedly make laws in the country and do everything herself. however, as she is the front person and leader i am going to lay the blame on her.

I do not agree with her decision to keep Ahmed Zaoui in the country. I do not support certain information about the case being with held from the public.

Fez, yes, I do think Helen Clark would and it scares me.

Toby, I can see why you have said that. I have done my reading and I have found many sites regarding Nicky Hager.

Some sites imply that he is an excellent journalist because he unravels and reveals things to the public that no other journalist has done.

If this is indeed true then I think he is brilliant. He may not always play in with the conventions of journalism but I feel that he is a journalist who is very much working for the people in exposing wrong doings. I respect him for this.

however, I have just crossed a site that states that he does indeed fabricate things. He definitely did one case but it does not mean he has done so more than this. He was repremanded.

I believe that as long as he reveals things that no other journalist will then he is brilliant. Fabricating and exaggerating things as the article says is wrong.

http://www.bsa.govt.nz/decisions/2004/2004-148.htm

Oh i see, so as long as he doesnt lie all the time, hes 'brilliant.' How is decieving the people of new zealand as to what are brothers and sisters are doing in iraq 'serving the people?' what a crock of shit. nicvky hager is an attention seeking propogandist who fabricates facts to get his warped views across to a mass audience. OH WAIT> now i see why you like the guy so much.

If you think helen clark would like this to be a dictatorship, then you have such bad judgement i believe every body will be inclined to dismiss anything else you have to say. And we were not talking about ahmed zauoi here, stop trying to change the subject. And you are plain wrong about that as well.

that is exactly the point. She doesnt decide things all on her lonesome, so how can you 'lay the blame on her.' Not all of it.

Toby, I've asked you before, several times, can you refrain from comments that are derogatory or provocative such as:

Those sorts of comments are not needed.

Nicky Hager exaggerated ONE time and he's been repremanded. he has exposed several things and I think he deserves respect for it. He's gone where no other journalist will go.

Case closed (mainly coz of your provocative and patronising comments).

This thread sure got a long way from Tamihere. Never mind, that's the way it goes. I don't see how he could make a comeback after what he has said about his colleagues in Labour - apology or not, they'll look at him sideways for evermore. He clearly doesn't agree with much of Labour's policy either, so maybe he does belong in Opposition. (Although maybe they're scared he'll let rip about their internal politics one day as well...)

It's interesting how most of the attention has recently gone to him calling people 'queers' or 'butch' or 'fairies' et cetera. This name-calling isn't real criticism of the government. That he thought it was says a lot about him - someone with such ignorant views doesn't have a place in a socially progressive government. It's clearly now a marriage of convenience for votes. Labour should cut their losses, maintain some self-respect and have him removed from the party.

On the "Helen Will Install Herself As Our Overlord" front - I think the idea is ridiculous.
However... I did hear from one conspiracy nut a while back that the new Army LAV 3 APCs aren't amphibious, all-terrain et cetera, because they're actually crowd control models - so why does the government want hundreds of them in NZ? Eh? Eh? Wonder if there's any truth in that.

Agreed, Tamihere should be in opposition. He would probably do himself some good in joining another political party, one that is right wing in its policies.
Politicians to have done so are Richard prebble and the infamous Winston Peters.

Helen Clark has dismissed him indefinitely from the Labour Caucus. There have been news reports questioning his career choice of politics.

Ultimately it is up to him to decide where he goes but I do not hold much hope that he would be able to make a mark in another party after his racist comments about the holocaust.

He needs to take time off, evaluate what is important to him and what is not, then maybe in a year's time return to politics. At this point in time he has irked off a lot of people and that will take a while to disappear.

Firstly Liz Tamihere probably wouldnt want support from someone unable to spell his name and who thinks his views are 'funny'.

Secondly the smoking laws are not about freedom they are about death. The death of innocent people who dont wish to inhale smoke actually what about their freedom? passive smokers die in the hundreds every year.

Thirdly prostitution is the oldest profession in the world, you cannot shut your eyes and just wish it away. By legalising it you can regulate it making a safer enviroment for those who have no choice but to work in the area.

Finnaly corngate was not actually handled by the PM despite what TV3 would like you to believe. Thats the point with a govt not a dictatorship these funny things could Ministries deal with issues that relate to them.

hey shyt happenes. Tama should be back provided others find in their hearts to forgive his mistake. Ppl make mistakes, He is a fckin Human after all. Although he's fcked up more than once. But that doesnt mean he cant do his job. No one is perfect.

and on Him being a leader of Labour, who started this thread? You should know thats not gonna happen.... why even give that as an option in the poll???

thats just fckin retardedness. Next time if some1 makes a poll... please provide all possible options.

And i mean POSSIBLE... think about that one.. not that hard though.