no, those are separate countries, or at least should be

Indeed. If someone claims seperate soverignty it becomes an international issue.

Come one south island, you know you want to seperate. Sick of looking after you bastards.

All thanks to Western propaganda, you believe so. Most Taiwanese do not support independence and neither does a majority of Tibetans (the Han have helped Tibet to develop).

John Lennon wanted to free Tibet :D

So did every fucking White man at the time.

and how are you so sure that eastern propaganda hasn't tricked you into believing that Taiwan and Tibet don't want independence?

Well a truely democractic election would solve that. If taiwan does want to become part of China I wouldn't be suprised if America would deny the democractic election. They've done it in the past, aka Vietnam.

Ask the average Taiwanese or Tibetan. Tibet has been a part of China for centuries, the West argued that a communist China invaded in 1950, completely ignoring the fact that ROCA troops had been in Tibet long before. Some Tibetan separatists even dared to trade land for rifles (from the British) to fight the government. Most Taiwanese argue that independence would cause further economic troubles and that the whole independence movement is a puppet of America or Japan.

I have

:ohsnap:



anyway we're getting too far away from the issue at hand, which is JOHN LENNON. and I'm getting too tired to talk about politics, so I'm not going to talk about China or Japan no more.

Such an election would have to include the Mainland population. If Quebec's separation from Canada is to be decided by the ballot, the whole of Canada votes (as it is still a part of Canada).

The Chinese are too smart for elections and every election in Taiwan's young democracy has been rigged.

Many overseas Tibetans are hardcore separatists and as for the Taiwanese, the young can be so misguided.

The general consensus of foreign governments is to never recognise these movements as the political instabiliy they cause will not be beneficial.


I'm off to bed. Your ways of Lennoning are ineffective compared to my Chianging.

There could be no fair election on the subject if the mainland is included.

The election would have to be only within the nation itself.

If quebec identified itself as its own nation, and truely felt that way an election within quebec should be held. It should be allowed to seperate if Canada believed in democracy. But no politicians really do so it's moot.

Most eastern elections are openly rigged, most Western elections are subjectively rigged through funding.

Actually, in the book Freakanomics, it was found that increased campaign funding only has a tiny effect on the outcome.

John Lennon wants to know how you sleep.

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Without any rigging, the Mainland's population would simply vote no. As for Quebec, such a referandum must be approved by the whole of Canada as according to law.

The mainland will outnumber the smaller state, so it will never win the election. So cannot be considered 'fair' or a reasonable option for any state wanting to become independent.

Please note that Taiwan is not a country. The very manipulation by the foreign nation to disenfranchise China is unfair itself. How the fuck would you like it if some hobos in the South Is. wants to declare independence from NZ?

well if the south island were to ask for independence, what I (or any other north islander) think about it shouldn't come into it in all fairness, and I don't know what you're talking about "these elections must include the mainland population", that defies all logic. Are you including the mainland population of China when you say "Ask the average Taiwanese or Tibetan"?

The average Tibetans and Taiwanese do not want independence. The Mainlanders would bitterly oppose any form of separatism and national disunity. Please don't try to veer away from the fact that both of such movements are also motivated by foreign nations taking advantage of the situation.

(Where the fuck is the Lennon now?)

hehe you're getting quite riled up at this :P


as I said, the mainlanders' opinions mean nothing in this issue, as it is not them asking for independence. And I also love how the average Tibetans and Taiwanese don't want independence (and you don't give any evidence to support this), but the ones that I talk to that do want it don't count :P

The Lennon hijack must be swift and unexpected. This thread is no longer the place. However if you really want some more info:

Did you know that Tibetan Symbols were played on Imagine as a tribuet to the people of Tibet?

I agree with Dr Steve, and I think so does logic.

The only way to know if your average Taiwanese or Tibetan person wants independence would be a democratic vote, involving only people from that nation. People from the main land have no say in whether Tibet would want independence, so should have no part in the vote.

I'm pretty certain after all the attrocities China has commited in Tibet that they would probably want independence. But who knows? As I said, it's all anecdotal without a vote.

Or at least a poll... anyone know of any?

By which I mean a poll in Tibet asking people there if they want Tibet to be independent.

I would be surprised if China would allow such a poll.

The so-called atrocities in Tibet were made up by Tibetan independence activists or the Western propagandists. If Tibet falls away from China it will soon end up in the hands of India.

That's just bullshit. Why would they put up such symbols when the whole song basically summarized the 'Communist Manifesto'.

"That nation" being China. If the South Is. wants an independence referandum, it would an issue for the whole of NZ.

Most polls conducted in Taiwan shows a sharp split down the middle with slightly more in favor of the status quo (against independence). The general consensus is that the indepence supporters are also supporters of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP); while those who are against independence are supporters of the right winged parties like the KMT (one of the oldest names in Chinese politics).

The Taiwan business community is generally against independence as their investments in the Mainland and trade will be severely affected. The DPP is also suspicious of the business community as their policies are more along the lines of democratic socialism.

The recent elections for the ROC senate has seen changing fortunes and the KMT now has a slim majority, preventing much of the DPP's controversial acts from being passed, such as further arms purchases from America. The ROCA (Republic of China Army) and police force over there has a long history of backing the KMT (every Chinese army is a toy of one party or another), where staunch opposition of anything non-KMT is an established culture.

The last Taiwan elections showed that the KMT is back on track as it's appeals to the military and business communities (somebody must get Taiwan out off that recession started by the DPP) and peaceful relations with the Mainland cannot be matched by Chen's party. This resulted in Chen using a staged assasination attempt to win by a razor thin margin of only 30,000 votes (upon a state of emergency, such as an assasination attempt on the ROC President's life, the military and police must give up their voting rights to maintain order, thus preventing over 200,000 KMT supporters from voting).

Well yeah, a secret poll then.

:hilarious: :hilarious: have you noticed that I have hijacked this thread into a discussion of China vs Tibet/Taiwan without you even noticing?? you just posted all that for nothing :hilarious: :hilarious: