Thought I'd break the drought on Think Tank serious business with this... it's allegedly a leaked speech from PRC Defence Minister Chi Haotian to an inner Party audience, outlining plans for a "Chinese Century".

Sample quotes?

Here are the links, both from the Epoch Times (Falun Gong) website:
English translation
Original Mandarin version

My opinion? The speech first turned up on linked Falun Gong websites, so it's either a beat-up from a group that (rightly or wrongly) has reasons to raise ire against the PRC - or a rare leak from one of the only groups that would dare publish such things.

Chi Haotian is known for sabre-rattling statements - googling his name will get a fair few hits, complete with angry commentaries.



This article was cut-and-paste reprinted in Investigate magazine (Dec 2005), and Ian Wishart thinks it makes sense. :rolleyes: But make up your own mind.

Any thoughts on this - or on the general "China Rising" phenomenon that's been more and more written about in the Western world?

In one of my earliest posts upon arrival, I've made a detailed explanation about the credibility about anything coming from The Epoch Times. The Epoch does not have credible sources to back up their (falsified) claims on most things about Chinese politics. This alleged leaked document for example, with the blatantly Marxist/Maoist is typical Epoch forgery, designed to stir up Western ignorance, maintain 1950s stereotypes on the Chinese government and hopefully influence Western governments to prepare for war with China.

Chi Haotian maybe a hardliner (sometimes criticized as the Chinese Rumsfeld), but his influence on power is rather minute (defense policy is no longer decided by him). If he was indeed so strongly supportive of a more traditional (Marxist/Maoist) approach to policy, this directly contrasts the current Chinese government's openly capitalist beliefs. The Chinese race and capitalism are a perfect couple, why spoil the relationship? It makes no sense that someone from the PLA would be so strongly communistic while modernization of the military was largely the product increased funding through a more capitalistic economy since the 1980s.

The Falun Gong is use scare mongering propaganda by acting as 'concerned Chinese' warning the world about a strong China. China has no plans to match the United States, let alone being able to attempt at becoming a superpower.

Since when was that magazine suppose to be an authority on sinologic political studies? I doubt they have a correspondent in Asia. I'd stick to Time magazine, if I want more informed reporting on what goes on elsewhere.

That's my two fen (cents) on this matter:

Yeah, more or less what I was thinking about the matter. It does seem blatantly threatening and old-school communistic, which is odd since China is only apparently in 'the primary stage of transition to socialism' (translation: 'we'll do what we want economically for the foreseeable future, and socialism is off the agenda'). So I suspected it was scaremongering as well.

I got a copy of Investigate from a friend who runs a stationers and couldn't help but notice it. It's always impressed me as a crank magazine, since at least half of every issue is written either by Ian Wishart or the Internet.

Thanks for a thoughtful and interesting post though. What are your opinions on Falun Gong, Adolf? (PM me if it's an awkward question to answer in public.)

I think they're more of a political movement than one that's genuinely devoted to Qi Gong. They give Qi Gong a bad name by disguising their political action as a part of Qi Gong or religion.

Their propaganda only works well with ignorant Redneck minds.

Epoch: Watch out, the Chicoms have laser weapons!

Mr. Chiang: Shut the f*ck up, mullethead! At least have the PLA ain't got boots!

Is he a male Hambeast?

Not really, but he's known in New Zealand for either 'hard-nosed investigative journalism' or 'conspiracy theory bollocks', depending on your point of view.

I think that an economically reinvigorated China is going to play a big part in the future of Asia and the Pacific, but I don't personally believe it will become a rival to the US in my lifetime. I worry about people who pin their hopes for "saving the world from the U$A!!" on the rise of another power.

The last thing China wants is to be tangled in the affairs of the wider world and being embroiled into a cold war with Uncle Sam. A nation sufferring from a serious energy crisis isn't going to be much of a challenge to America.

They failed to realize that if it isn't the current beacon of freedom that is the United States, the world would either be dominated by the Japanese militarists, the Nazis, or the Soviets.

By quoting the Epoch, that's hardly investigative. It would be very foolish for a journalist to fall into a trap set by extremists. Since he's a Westerner, I would excuse him for that.

Yeah, it was printed verbatim, except for a brief introduction by Wishart - which claims that the document has 'fallen into the hands' of Western intelligence agencies. The fact that it first appeared on a Falun Gong website might seem odd, he says, but he believes that the Falun Gong have high-level operatives in the government of the PRC...

Wishart being a Westerner doesn't come into it. If you'd excuse him for misrepresenting the true nature of what he's found, you're more forgiving than me.

My theory on the Falun Gong's political activism is that, since they can't succeed in China itself (the government being too controlling of their activities), they have to seduce the Western public through propaganda. Their political aim is to render the PRC government as more evil and sinister than before, hoping that one day the US will attack China and result in a regime change (just like in Iraq)- with a new government controlled by the Falun Gong.

The Falun Gong being Chinese may have operatives in high places... It will be a matter of time before the NSB (China's National Security Bureau) infiltrators break up their networks. Remember those 'democracy protests' in 1989? Ever heard of any of their leaders now? The NSB infiltrated their overseas organizations, creating internal conflict. By 1999, hardly any of their leaders have made any political statements. The 6/4 activists have clearly failed.

Wow, a lot of stuff to comment on in this thread.

When I first read this in Investigate I had thought they had cooked it up purely themselves and was impressed with their level of forgery, but I guess this above proves the fact that Wishart's success died the day after the Wine-Box Inquiry stopped ringing in the public consciousness in New Zealand.

As Adolf pointed out too, he focuses far too much on Marxism, and the opening few paragraphs about them being pleased about people dying for the country reek with a dodgy smell.

Very true comment. The irony is that they say they aren't political, yet why do they sit around at huge anti-Chinese government protests? The reason why the crackdown even started was because they became so arrogant with their religious power that they protested outside the Hall of the People or somewhere else where you simply know you shouldn't protest outside. Falun Gong seems to be such an utterly pointless exercise in trying to legitimise undermining the Communist state in China (which in my opinion is the entire modus operandi of the cult), and I have little sympathy for people who invite attacks upon themselves, then moan about getting attacked when it's entirely of their own making.

In a country full of corruption and injustice, their "truth and compassion" announcements were attractive to a lot of people. What their new recruits don't realise is that they've been used a pawns for a political organization under the disguise of a religion.

That's true, but yeah, as you said, it's a political organisation under the disguise of a religion. With regard to a country full of injustice and corruption, if I recall correctly the Falun Gong hierachy is not democratically elected, and their finances, as an illegal organisation, are not transparent. They could be worse than the Chinese government, and I have heard a lot of reports (similar to those about Scientology) of torture of Falun Gong members by other group members to stop members from leaving the cult.

People who set themselves up to be maytyrs are utterly pathetic in my opinion.

$cientology claims torture?

They refuse people to see doctors/lock them away if they start to go crazy, and that sort of stuff.

Here is a very brief history of Falun Gong and the PRC government, for those unfamiliar with it. The site covers almost every religion in existence and tends to give the religion the benefit of the doubt - I read it often. Make up your own mind on objectivity.

You may have seen Falun Gong/Falun Dafa demonstrations in Queen Elizabeth Square near Britomart, complete with an actor in Chinese police/military uniform threatening to break the legs of a man bound on two chairs.

Every day, these Chinese seniors of the Falun Gong hand out pamphlets in the Northcote Shopping Centre, outside Taiping (a Chinese grocery store). I just ignore them. They used to protest in large numbers outside the Chinese consulate two or three years ago when they had greater international notoriety.

Taiping as in the religious rebellion? How ironic...

You know what, whenever I look at the Falun Gong, they remind me of that bloody Taiping Rebellion (history's bloodiest civil war). By the store, I was referring to Taiping Trading Co. Ltd. It has several stores in the Auckland area. "Taiping " means peace and generally does not have any association with the Taiping Tianguo rebel movement.

Did you follow that link I posted? It explicitly notes the Taiping Rebellion as a precedent for PRC action against the Falun Gong.

And I've seen the stores too. Never imagined any real connection though...

PS: "Tianguo" = "Heavenly Kingdom"?

If there's anything any Chinese regime have to worry about would be politicized phophets. The series of revolts that finally ravaged the Win Dynasty began with two self-proclaimed prophets that believed they received messages from Heaven telling them to lead a rebellion. Although they failed miserably, their actions opened a Pandora's Box to other revolts. Taiping Tianguo's powers were feared by the Beijing regime as they managed to extend their grip over half of China within a decade of civil war.

In the modern day, the Party has to suppress the Falun Gong as the chaos caused by this cult can lead to other examples of unrest. The govenrment has to keep a close eye on the anti-Japanese protests due to fears of true nationalism unleashed (true nationalists do not take kindly to the Party's appeasement).

"Taiping" as a word itself has no connection to the Taiping Tianguo revolt. Western history books often condense Taiping Tianguo to just Taiping, which can be misleading.

Yes. And the rebels renamed Nanjing (their makeshift capital) to Tianjing ("Heanvenly Capital"). They even tried to legitimize their authority by seeking recognition from the West. The West supported the Qing Dynasty, as they believe that Hong Xiuquan was some lunatic cult leader (his claims of being Christ's younger brother was rubbished completely).

Surprisingly enough, one of the heroes who helped to supress the Taiping Rebellion was a Gweilo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Townsend_Ward