http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17326184-29277,00.html

:iiam:

You're quite fond of that new emoticon, aren't ya?

That guy was fucking stupid.
He knew the risks, and there were other ways of dealing with his brothers debts.
I feel sorry for his mother, but im a little pissed that the aussie govt had to step in at a time when they were meeting at a commonwealth summit to discuss crucial trade issues involving the EU and WTO, which affect the lives of millions in the developing world.

Woo-hoo! The dickhead's dead! Just another small victory in the war against drug trafficking and abuse. I view the Australians with contempt for their backing of an international criminal. Looks like the convicts' blood still runs strong!

Hey! The convict blood runs strong here too - many people transported to Australia (for crimes ranging from fraud to stealing a loaf of bread) came here once they had served out their sentence. Doesn't mean it has bugger all to do with crime in either country today.

Adolf, regardless of this man's guilt, or the Aussie government's efforts to free him, I'm still totally disgusted by your open joy at his death.

Looks like I'll leave this 'til the weekend as well...

The death sentence is a hangover from a primitive and barbaric past.

Again, why not front up? You accused Anti-Flag of being a coward for not appearing to answer criticism. What's your excuse?

It amazes me how Australians, and the western world alike have imposed their understanding of what's lawful and what isn't on Singapore. Or what's "primitive" or not.

They have a drug problem. They need a deterrence. The guy had 400g of herion on him which would in effect destroy peoples lives if they had access to it. It was treated as murder. Fair enough. We're in no position to be telling them how to deal with such a serious problem. Australia and those countries so quick to condemn the execution ought to think a little about the consquences of allowing this to slide. It would give the system the impression of being weak, and encourage further offending.

However, Singapore was out of line not allowing his mother to hug him. That was insane.

Chiang, you and MrT would make a fine couple.

I understand your perspective Anti-Flag, and to an extent I hugely admire the Singaporean government so that's stopping me from getting hugely angry at them, nevertheless it truly is barbaric to hang people. I don't care whether I'm being Western-centric, because hanging someone as death is sick, painful humiliation.

Nevertheless, you are definitely right they need to have very tough sentences, and I must say that this happens once every few years, when you get Westerners given draconian punishments for crimes, which seems to be Singapore's way of telling bad-doers to fuck-off.

Capital punishment doesn't stop crime. Case in point, what just happened.

It is primitive, it is barbaric, and it is a frightening amount of power in the hands of an impersonal agent - the state.

In countries with thorough legal appeal systems, it ends up being less expensive to keep someone imprisoned for life (a thought that also bothers me severely) than to kill them after the appeals process. Also, the number of innocent people who are murdered by states is a little worrying.

The guy wouldn't have had 400g of heroin if there was not a demand for it, and if its legal status didn't make it extremely profitable for gangs and the like to deal in it. Quite possibly, the guy wouldn't have had 400g of heroin if he had grown up in an economic system that gave workers their fair share of the world's wealth. There is a direct correlation between poverty and drug use and drug dealing, and there is a reason that wealthy people like ourselves are far less likely to end up addicted to a potentially harmful drug.

The same system that claims the right to imprison and end a human being's life is the system that created him and his motives in the first place.

In the US, capital punishment is sometimes defended on the grounds that it is a democratic representative government that is imposing it, and therefore the capital punishment has a kind of popular mandate. As terrifying as I find the thought that people think that if enough of them approve of murdering someone that it's okay, in Singapore there is not even that. It does not have a representative government.

ROFL here we go again. And wasn't it you who thought I was being inappropriate for using the same language/stance/whatever against the Iraq kidnapping post. This comes across as a double standard to me.

Not at all, in the other thread it was someone who has done something that is not illegal.

Also, I'm sure Hannoir wouldn't have said it if he knew that the guy who was killed was a friend of a forum goon.

Actually that wasn't what Hannoir was going on about.

Hmm. On the one hand, I don't really care what happens to drug smugglers, and I'm far from alone. On the other hand, the idea of New Zealand citizens (and I know that isn't the article, but I'm trying to think like an aussie here) being executed for comitting a crime while overseas is a cause for concern.

Now you can make a good case for drug smuggling being worthy of execution, but what if it were something much more trivial, say viewing pornography? How many of you would be pissed if a New Zealand citizen were killed for having a Hustler while in some foreign country? Or say, reading the Bible/Koran/I, Robot? If it were a minor enough crime, I too would support my country imposing an embargo, the only question to me is how ridiculously stupid the punishment needs to be before we consider doing something.

Remember your Star Trek folks. Even Captain Picard, who is usually all about 'respecting other cultures', wouldn't let Wesley Crusher be killed by the society that executes for every crime.

So you're ok with him being executed, but bothered when he couldn't get a hug?

If that's the way she tries to live by then I think it is a rather double-standard (It's ok as long as its not in my backyard) approach to treating people. That being said, I believe that she's entitled to approach it that way without censorship.

Got an MSN from a friend last night. He said...

"This Singapore thing has shown what fucktards New Zealanders are. 'I support the death penalty cos there's no crime in Singapore.' No crime? So those 148 people hanged last year weren't criminals?"

Of course, I freely admit to being a dirty, low life hypocrite. I just wouldnt think it was appropriate to say "fucking idiot" about a friend of a forumer.


Well, as i'm a hypocrite with double standards, you are all fucking idiots.

I wouldnt call it double standards in that as Steveo pointed out, smuggling drugs is illegal. Going to a war zone of your own accord is not.

There were risks involved in either venture. What distinguishes one from another in the eyes of most people is the motivation.

Though I've heard this guy was trying to pay off a debt that his brother had incurred on his family, but there must surely have been other options.

Oh, there goes the usual, blame the SS Mann exercise. I should add the following emoticon for your amusement. :chiang:


On Friday at my workplace, we counted down to his execution five minutes from 11:00 AM (NZ time). The suggested member of our staff has a family member who had his life ruined by P and other drugs.

As for my own opinion, they should have made it public or televized. It'll be an entertaining affair for all ages!

Geez, Sam! Couldn't you take a joke?

Are you against justice?

It would not be barbaric if the sentence is carried out with by a death that's relatively quick and painless.

I work 10 hours a day; I'll be too tired to spend too much time on the forums. I was initially checking my emails before I decided to check the forum as well.

Anti-Flag, it's odd that we have some agreement over this issue. I saw the whole thing as another case of Australia attempting to spread its White imperialist wings over a SE Asian nation with the bastard being executed as a pawn.

They should never allow his mother to hug him or have any physical contact with him since it's against their policies and such a scumbag should be deprived off all human affections.

At least hanging is a bloodless death compared to a death by firing squad, which is reserved for spies, war criminals or soldiers. He death was best carried out (from the more Western justice perspective) by being hanged like a dog.

That's another attempt of slandering Singapore's heavenly drug laws as most of the drug criminals executed there were locals. Because someone from a White country was facing a death sentence, the bloody Aussies go create a diplomatic pissing contest.

Since when has anarchy ever worked? You get individuals (or bandit groups) committing genocide, rape and murder. Quite fun, for you creatures from Hell.

Since over 99% of those sentenced in many countries to death are guilty of their crimes, are you against justice? If someone commits a murder, should that murderer be allowed to walk free and reoffend? Real criminals (like those in some Asian countries) know no guilt.

Look at the white collar fucktards here who are being decimated by P. Are you saying that only the lower class can become addicts? Everyone has the potential to become an addict. All it takes is the spark.

What's with all this anarcho-kelptocratic (Marxist) crap? If we're to have absolute equality, you might as well have every man walk around in the raw with their penises trimmed to a standard length!

You got a problem with that? If democracy doesn't work in an Asian country, White people call it unjust and backward. Democracy is a global hypocrisy!

At least there's justice in Singapore. Over here, you can rape and murder and all you get a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket.

There could have been more legal options, but he was stupid enough to take the risky option. Fool! Also, if I was heading the smuggling, I would not choose Singapore as a point of transit.

Your comparison makes no sense since reading a Hustler is very minor compared to smuggling drugs or weapons.

Chiang, you're way too cold-hearted and i highly doubt you'd be in agreement with this if you were his family member. Singapore was far too harsh in this regard.

I'm not trying to equate them. My point was, how minor does a crime have to become before it becomes ok for Australia to say "hey wait a minute, you're killing one of our citizens for THAT?!". The australian government seems to have drawn the line at drug smuggling, whereas you or I may draw the line in a different place. Chances are, in our wide world, there's a place someone that would execute someone for something particularly trivial.

Oob, another example of the west's arrogance in dictating limits and what should be deemed as "civil" and "uncivil".

When the Chinese had civilization, the Northern Europeans were still living in caves and grouped together as tribes.

Hailing from a country that's a haven for criminals, I have no sorrow or affection for society's lowest. Let him hang like a dog for slaughtering. I've seen videos of Chinese multiple murderers laughting while their executioners take up their rifles to aim. For someone to have committed a crime that deserves execution, it is unlikely that they know remorse.

How the fuck is smuggling something so dangerous suppose to be trivial?

If that SOB Bush died, I bet over 50% of the world would celebrate if not, getting feeling of joy and relief.

Well let me put it to you like this. This is an absurb scenario, but let's say there was a country that had a New Zealand citizen on death row for, say, coughing in public. Would you support the New Zealand government in apply pressure to have this person released, or at least not executed?

My mum used to say something similar sometimes to cheese off kiwis. "My people were building kingdoms while your people were still in the trees" or some such.

Once again, I am not talking specifically about drug smuggling here. See my above question to Anti-flag for an example of the point I'm getting at.

Name a country that would do such a thing. Poor analogy mate.

That's 'cause she is dead right. Arabs being a prime example.

Chiang, you need a hug.

Very poor one indeed.

Oob, you should have mentioned something like a Kiwi in a country that practices Sharia Law. He committed theft and he's going to have his hand chopped off. Not that some Kiwi being able to afford a trip there would be doing the stealing. (Just a suggestion.)

I'm getting to a point, this is just a hypothetical scenario. Would you support the NZ govt in such a case?

*Yawns*

I'm off to bed. I'll deal with this tomorrow.

No country currently adheres to Shariah law in accordance with Islamic teachings. Just thought i'd point that out. The cutting of the hand in the Muslim world is so rare, it can be considered non-existent. Another poor analogy.

If it helps, consider littering instead of coughing in public, as an example of the 'least of all crimes' (although there's probably something that's less of a crime, but littering's the best I can think of right now).

Oob, of course there are universal limits when it becomes this ridiculous. Your analogy is irrelevant in this regard.

Ok then, tell me what would be the least crime you can think of at which point the analogy would no longer be ridiculous. Bearing in mind that this is a hypothetical scenario, there does not actually have to be a country which kills people for it. Imagine this is a country led by some guy with a rod up his ass, who orders people executed for really stupid things that bug him. There's been plenty of countries ruled by nuts, so it's not a ridiculous scenario.

Hmmm here's a thought. Hitler had people imprisoned and killed for the 'crime' of being a Jew. Try that as the example.

I wouldn't think so. One Middle Eastern country (forgot the name) practiced the amputation of the hands of thieves and some conservative Islamic states in Nigeria have stoned women to death recently for adultery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_Law#Co...e_of_Sharia_Law

Here we go, another person who claims he knows what an Islamic state entails. I'm a Muslim, and i can assure you aside from Iran, and even they are doubtful, there is no Islamic state. Elements of Islamic practice does not constitute Shariah law. Many of the practices exist through their cultural associations, more so than adherence to Islamic law.

Oob, you're aguing for the sake of arguing. Devling into rare possibilties is indicative of this. The fact that you can put the holocaust on the same platform of comparison as littering is pointless and absurd.

Hey! I thought that men hugging men is suppose to be gay in the West?!