I am going to be walking to university tomorrow and will be walking home from uni tomorrow. I am fortunate in that I live close to the city but other people are not as fortunate and will thus not be able to attend university and/or work.

This is very inconsiderate and this is a problem with unions in my opinion.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10118459

Reading this link, stagecoach drivers get paid more than most people and I think their wants are rediculous.

Hmm, maybe I should be a bus driver. Hold on, everyone on the road will hate me, and people might be rude to me on buses... nah.

I think the problem here is that it is a "high stress", job where you are responsible for lots of people, who are not usually all that appreciative or friendly to you, that not many people really want to do. If this is the case, then perhaps their wages should be higher. :shrugs:

What the company has offered according to the article seems reasonable considering minimum wage is $9 something. They'll be earning almost as much as I was as a starting engineer. It's probably not really enough to feed a whole family on though.

I disagree with you saying they deserve that amount based on it being a high stress job, my mum works as a carer and only gets paid an hourly rate of $11.50 I think. If she does something wrong then someone could die or get badly injured.

it is enough money. I have done the calculations dragonorchid:
$14.33 X 20 = 286.60 gross, minus $58 for tax equates to $230. Assuming the other partner has a job it is enough money. If they work more hours then it is very sufficient.

Won't make much of a diference to me - it takes me about 45 mins to walk to uni, which is only slightly longer than I have to wait to catch a bus which is supposed to come every ten minutes.

What does your mum do?

Liz, here in Auckland, assuming that the whole family don't all want to live in a single room like people flatting, then that 230 or more will be gone every week straight away for rent. That leaves the other person's income minus the extra needed to supplement the rent as well, for food, transport, diapers, childcare, kids clothes, food and expenses.

Yes and that is what happens in a two income family, you share the bills. I jus tthink the people are being greedy.

I think people who are actually working should have the right not to have to struggle all the time.

You get $200 on the dole if you get accomodation supplement. The gap should be greater between $200 for someone not working at all and $230 (as Liz calculated) for someone working this job . Where is the incentive.

Michelle, my calculation was based on a 20 hour week, that is part time so it brings the assumption that it is possible those drivers may have another job.

I will do a calculation of 30 hours

30 x $14.33 = 429.90 - $60 for tax equates to $370.

There, that is enough money for a solo person and is enough for a two income family.

According to Statistics New Zealand, the average wage for Auckland in 1999 was $19.54. The average for Wellington was higher at $21.26 (thanks to the politicians salaries :P), and the lowest was Waitakere at $15.81

I don't think that can be a far depiction because as you said, the politicians salaries, Judy Bailey's salary would also push it up.

Those stats do not paint an accurate picture.

They point out that the bus driver's wage is well below average.

That depends, I think if you took unqualified jobs (yes they have to have a particular drivers license) and lumped them altogether and then found the average, you would find it would be a lot lower.

I get $12 in an unqualified job.
People at Mcdonalds get about $9.50.
Care workers get $11.50.

I find it amazing that you class 'bus driver' as an unqualified/unskilled job. Personally I find that degrading to anyone who has not had the advantage of a university education, well done for singling out a huge sector of the public and alienating/insulting them! I'm sure its much more skilled than many of the pointless jobs in the Media.

I suggest you read Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy and find out what happened to the useless sector of humanity - all the media people, hairdressers and middle management.

I think it sucks that they took a whole day of no busses, it must screw up a lot of people's day. I'm also worried that if they get a pay increase bus prices will go up to compensate and buses are already starting to be ridiculusly expensive.
However I don't think there's any reason bus drivers don't deserve better pay, I mean I'd hate to be a bus driver, putting up with Auckland traffic everyday, such a monotonus unrewarding job.
Also who are you to assume what sort of situation any bus driver lives, maybe he has a stay at home wife raising two young children and doesn't plan to persue her carrer until the children are older so she devote her time to the kids.
Anyway bus drivers do deserve a pay rise but I have little sympathy for the people who made me walk to uni in the HOT HOT sun. Arg it may only be 45min but it's gross been sweaty when you get to uni.

actually, on the way home, the motorway traffic was much lighter than usual. Good on the howick and eastern bus drivers for being a bit more sensible...or timid (they had a 2 hr strike btw 1 and 3pm last week apparently).

To get more ppl to use the mass transit system, you need to have reliable service, which means a satisfied staff. To be able to pay for a satisfied staff, you need more ppl to use the mass transit system. :P

I have read it, I read it over summer and found it a brilliant book. I never read ut I couldn't put it down. I read it in one night.

I am not putting them down, the job is unskilled, YOU took it that I was saying they are of a lower class but I never said that. I said that the job is unskilled, and it is, that is a fact.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh why has the subject changed???? WHAT IS THiS MADNESS? who the fuck works a 20 hour week? 380 id jack shit to live on! who can judge that is 'enough'? who says the stats dont paint an accurate picture???? liz your accurate picture equates to your mums job, a 'carer' earning 11.50. Do you think every carer earns 11.50? of course they dont. and you dont earn 9.50 at mcdonalds??!??!?!?

judy baileys sallary would not push that total up, thats ONE person!

I work a 20 hour week but I am a student. That is not the norm.

To be honest I don't for sure how many hours the stagecoach drivers work a week. I was using that number of hours as a rough estimate and to make a point, a point that was missed by everyone else.

I am not saying that $380 is enough for a family, what I am saying is that if both people are working then it is enough.

You are all making the assumption that the bus drivers may have families, you have no evidence of this and it is only speculation.

Bottom line is I think their hourly rates are sufficient and they should be pleased with the increase.

It is more than the nurses and teachers get when they get pay rises.

And you made an assumption in your calculations that stagecoach drivers only work 20 hours a week. You didn't have a point because it was flawed.

My point is is that they have enough to live on and should be grateful that they even have jobs.

now you are up to speculating about we are speculating about. nobody said they had families. i could barely live over summer on 400 a week, and i dont have any bills to pay.

im sorry, but you're taking it too far. they should be grateful they even have jobs? skandalous. Didnt hear anybody complaining when teachers went on strike. and right now i need a bus driver more than i need a teacher. you get more money roadworking and turnging the stop sign ($15) than you do driving a bus? and those dirty proletariats should be grateful? sounds like elitism to me.....

When the teacher strikes were going on back in 6th form I was one of the ones protesting in Dunedin about the teachers going on strike.

People in these jobs provide a service and they have a responsibility to do so. They have inconvenienced a lot of people today with their strikes.

The drivers get more than most people and that is one of my problems with this. My other problem with this is that how are we ever supposed to get more buses on the roads when the drivers are demanding more pay.

If they get more pay it is going to have a trickle down effect and the consumer will end up paying more as a result.

evidently not, otherwise they wouldn't want more

Oh god. where do i start.

Trickle down affect? that thatcherite, reagnite bullshit? did you not see what happened to the economies of America and Britain following the 1979 and 1980 elections? dont have a clue? most of us were still in diapers. That entire concept is irrelevant and redundant.

drivers get more than most people? at say 15 dollar, 40 hour weeks, which is fair, thats barely $30000 a year? Most people? please, i can get more than that on a paper round. I say your mum deserves a pay rise, because shes getting ripped off.

These people have other things to think about than whether toby turner got to uni on time on monday. If i wasnt being paid enough, id fucking strike too! in fact, they probably hate their jobs, and hate us even more getting on their dirty buses off to uni to learn how be their boss. So show a little compassion. please. if the drivers demand more pay, and get it, maybe there will be people quiting their mcdonalds job and enquiring about bus driving. stagecoach buys more busses, gets more customers, less people use their cars and we're all fucking happy. i can tell you now, tho, if the public transport service pays jack shit, we wont see any improvements.

Why bring class into this? Nobody mentioned it until you did just then, perhaps you are assuming too much. The job is unskilled you say - though you can't do it because by your own admission you are too frightened to even drive a car in Auckland. That would suggest a modicum of skill is involved especially as you allow that they need a special license of some sort.

As for the book, I presume much of the irony went over your head. I suggest you re-read it else you may find yourself on that ship crashlanding on earth in the future.

My mum gets over $20,000 a year and she is a carer at a rest home in dunedin. That is a good wage for dunedin where the average salary is $18,000 at the last census.

I wouldn't strike, its a good wage for an unskilled/nqualified job. I don't believe in strikes though and do believe in indie contracts, they prevent this sort of thing happening.

I am not showing compassion Toby to the bus drivers because I don't think they deserve the rise. They drive dangerously, they over crowd buses :frustrated: They don't have enough buses on the roads and I don't support unionism.

I never said explicity I don't drive because I am frightened, it was implied.

Is the wrong answer.

opinions can be debated and you can refute points and statements but opinions are never wrong because they are subjective and vary from person to person.

well thats utterly ridiulous. John your website is great but, and a fine piece of work, but some of these conversasions are childish. only the slave owner doesnt support unionism. i worked in a factory for 3 months, the grave yard shift, we wouldnt have gotten a fucking bean if it wasnt for our union. like the stagecoach management, ours didnt give a fuck, they just wanted the profit management. we fought overovertime wage and starting wage and fucking night shift wage and working conditions and breaks and bonuses, all of it, because we werent getting shit with out some common ground.

And we are NOT talking about dunedin. AUCKLAND STAGECOACH BUSES.

Its a good wage? is it really? thats pure heresy. you dont think they deserve a rise? well i fucking do, thats called a disagreement. they dont overcrowd buses! they drive them! BUS DRIVER read the damn name tag. 'they' dont have enough buses on the road? the BUS driver doesnt? they can only drive one at a time!

edited the poll to include "other bus's" as thats what I did today, caught an Urban Express bus. I sincerly hope Stagecoach doesnt continue to do this though.

I once worked in a dairy for $5 per hour.

It is my personal opinion that they don't deserve a pay increase, I have fascist opinions.

I understand the drivers can't drive more than one bus at a time but explain to me this, stagecoach have a set budget and if they pay drivers more it means they can't hire more and it means they can't buy more buses because the money is going to the current bus drivers.

The bus drivers do overcrowd the buses, many a time I have seen a bus driver admit passengers beyond the "no standing sign". it is not safe and many a time have I rung stagecoach and many a time have I written into Craccum about this.

The drivers have a responsibility to ensure that we get to our destination safely. How are we to do this if they overcrowd them and the driver brakes suddenly. It will cause an injury some day.

Why do you always reverse to that 'my opinion isnt wrong, its subjective.' in some cases, i will admit defeat. thats the whole point of debate, to offer ideas, and then choose your view point, not sticking to your single idea and going blue in the face.


word jon

right. so in order to get some reasonable, responsible, safe bus drivers, who are apparently there purely to serve the facist , lets pay them jack shit. Brilliant. since when does stagecoach have a set budget? you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. perhaps if you had a dairy union you wouldnt have been paid $5 an hour. if you have finally acknowledged you are a facist, can we stop taking you seriously?

Agreed, that's why your answer was incorrect.

Nobody mentioned class until you did that is a fact not an opinion.

So will running with scissors, its an acknowledged fact.

I wrote an answer that somehow got deleted, I will put it in bullet point form

*yes, it will so the buses shouldn't be overcrowded, be the ambulance at the top of the hill.

*Unions allow people to strike, it is not in their job description that they are allowed to strike. I can't just go out on strike because I want more money, i'd lose my job.

*Stagecoach have a job to transport people to and from places.

*Failing this Stagecoach can hire new people.

no one would want to hired with the shit pay.

THE PAY IS FINE AND THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET AT.

IF IT WAS FINE THEY WOULDNT BE STRIKING. YOU ARE NOT A BUS DRIVER.

No I am not a bus driver but just because they are striking doesn't make it justified.