There's no song more worthy of such a title than John Lennon's pathetic protest wail known as 'Imagine'.

I hate that song!

That's because you have no imagination

Of course I do, I just don't waste in on crappy things. I imagine things like a new type of depth charge or something of the like. The lyrics of that song is pretty much against most things I support.

APC cover is even better

Armored Personnel Carrier? Where?!

Imagine is more than some wailing protest song.

You're against unification?
Peace?
Ambition?

I think we should create a post called "Anthems of Stupidity" for all the crap Chaing says.

I support unification of peoples of a common culture and language. I support peace. What I don't support is its communist propaganda!

There are so many things there that are wrong.

There is nothing wrong with communism as a utopian ideal.

The only reason it doesn't work is that most people are cunts.

You just have very little appreciation of the arts Adolf.

I think you actually secretly admire communism and everything it stands for, yet you want to rebel against your homeland so you are embracing the capitalist way.

Be yourself Adolf, we like people better when they are themselves.

Bear in mind this is coming from someone who actually listens to RTS in-game music offline, for fun...

Let's go through the lyrics and see how defeatist they are. I'd also ask, "Defeatist in the conflict against WHAT?"

"Imagine there's no heaven / It's easy if you try"
= Done, most of us are way ahead already.

"No hell below us / Above us only sky"
= Well, there probably isn't any hell, but this lyric ignores outer space - still no defeatism yet.

"Imagine all the people / living for today..."
= It's not possible or wise to live for any other time, so this is fairly realistic.

"Imagine there's no countries / It isnt hard to do"
= This is a little harder than John thinks , but it's only asking you to imagine FFS

"Nothing to kill or die for / No religion too"
= Religion is naturally dying out in the West - and there's nothing defeatist about not wanting conflict and death, is there? Not sure when this will happen though.

"Imagine all the people / living life in peace..."
= Sounds like a worthy goal, sometime in the future.

"Imagine no possessions / I wonder if you can"
= He's right, that's a bit of an ask.

"No need for greed or hunger / A brotherhood of man"
= A laudable goal, not terribly defeatist, I would have thought.

"Imagine all the people / Sharing all the world"
= We already do; perhaps the distribution could be reshuffled a little, but hey.

"You may say I'm a dreamer / but I'm not the only one"
= How very true!

"I hope some day you'll join us / And the world will live as one."
= Again, nice. No air of compulsion here, either.

"Imagine" is idealistic and impossible and lovely. 99 percent of the people who love it aren't communists, as befitting a song produced in non-communist England for a world audience. Labelling it propaganda is just stupid.

I appreciate the finer sort of arts, like classical music, landscape photography and realistic looking painting.

No, I'm not a communist. If I could be beamed back to the 1940s, you'd see me fighting alongside Chiang's KMT.

I am being myself.

THIS POST VERIFIED BY THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH

Hmm... Wasn't the CCP rather big on photorealism in art, ie socialist realism? Still, can't blame you for absorbing the cultural milieu.

If I remember right, the CCP and GMD actually had a fair bit in common in the early days - at least before the CCP started calling for actual socialist revolution, rather than just "new democracy" (a state of partially controlled capitalism very similar to the GMD's founding principles). Although there is of course a big difference - Chinese history would look very interesting today if the GMD had got its shit together in the 30s and 40s; maybe China would be a better place. I guess it just wasn't their moment.

Anyway, I'm not surprised that you have antipathy towards a song like "Imagine". It probably looks dangerously soft to you. Just remember that your own political stance looks dangerously hardline to some of us...

My stance on the arts is more influenced by the Nazi German classication (heroic art as opposed to degenerate art). I've heard about socialist realism, but I haven't see many in my lifetime as it was pretty much all gone by the time I was born.

I deserve a pat on the back for that one!

It has been imagined that if the ROC had survived in the Mainland, China today would be more traditional (KMT wouldn't wipe out Confuscian ethics), closer aligned to America and the population would be approximately 2/3 of the current total. Developments would have occured faster, the nuclear stockpile would be bigger. As for Mao, if he made it across the Russian border, he'll spend the rest of his life there as a loser.

There would be a unified Korea under the leadership in Seoul as China would not be backing the North Koreans and will instead sandwich their regime without two nations allied with the United States.

THIS POST VERIFIED BY THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH

Confucian ethics haven't been wiped out in China anyway, have they?

Speaking of art, I also admire the Chinese guo hua ('national painting') style.

It was publically and openly denounced by Mao during the Cultural Genocide. Mao considered it archaic and claimed that one of the few traditional philosophies you should look at would be the Fa Jia school of thought, founded by Confuscius' rival philospher, Fa Zi who was beheaded on Kong Zi's (Confuscius) order when Kong took power in a state during a brief period. Mao commented that the Fa school was even revolutionary, but that's pure horseshit!

My father remembered vividly on a visit to town when he was still a boy that someone was being publically humiliated, his charge was for teaching Confuscian philosphy to his sons.

It was out off this destruction of ethics in popular consciousness that resulted in so much crime and corruption in modern China. Another grand challenge to the survival of Kong's works is being headed by the 'Westernist' cultural invasion.

Since when was anarchist kleptocracy a utopian ideal?

The sole reason why it doesn't work is because it is anti-human- against the very fundamentals of the human race.

THIS POST VERIFIED BY THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH

I think that's basically what Ahmed said, Adolf.

Yes, that is what Ahmed said Chiang.

You claim to posses imagination. Sufficient imagination to set aside your beliefs and prejudices for 3 minutes and just listen? Just because you don't support something doesn't mean you can't appreciate it. Being a realist the song is against many things I support too, yet it is one of my favourites. Obviously he's dreaming, but what is wrong with that? Share the dream, for 3 minutes at least.

I bet it's this line that really gets you. Imagine such a world - if you can.

A pat on that back? From who? For what?

My opinion differ. He claims that it doesn't work because humans are "cunts". I claim it doesn't work because that system represents the destruction of humanity!

I possess imagination, yes. I've imaged his horseshit ideas and they turn out to be FUBAR. Share the dream? What's this, you pass your thoughts around like some hash pipe? How about share my dreams, it's to the tune of Dvorak's 9th Symphony's final movement and the scene is similar to D-Day except that it's happening on the other side of the Taiwan Strait! (Just a weird thought, not that I desire such a dream immensely.)

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/marinecorps_03lg.jpg
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/orbat/marinecorps_07lg.jpg
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type63_3.jpg
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type63_5.jpg
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/amphibious/yunan_1.jpg

If one's cause has succeeded and all his enemies are dead, then sure! LOL!

Just saying, I probably deserve a pat on the back for having such extreme views.

*sigh*

:chiang: wait, so you are saying that the idea of people not killing each other represents the destruction of humanity???

It's lying in the same format as Marx and Lenin. Once the communists take over a country, it's all killing and purgation. I don't even know if Lennon is his real name, I suspect that he could be some communist who has a pseudonym that sounds like Lenin.

^^ That is insanity

....respect to your fellow man and equal footing results in killing and purgation.

This is official. From the office of Ahmed. You are a fucking retard.