Evening all.
As part of my year abroad here I have to write a big ass paper for Birmingham (my home university). Its going to be based on the effect on the European Union trade laws on NZ trade.

I am just wondering what people over here think of the European Union. What's the general attitude? Do you know much about it? Do you care? If you do know about it what do you think? Good? Bad? Should the UK stay closer to the Commonwealth countries?

This won't be empirical evidence as such - I just want an idea of attitudes and the like.

kthxbye

Back in the '70s when Britain was joining the EEC, NZ was worried about impacts on exports. However, over the past two decades, the exploration on new trading partners has diversified the locations of NZ good ending up.

Should Britain decrease her trade with the Commonwealth, I'm sure those nations would be smart enough to look for markets elsewhere.

In my opinion, I don't think Britain is too keen on the EU since she is against the adoption of the Euro and supported the invasion of Iraq. Some people view that the EU could develop into a superpower of a conglomerate of nations to rival U.S. supremacy as European unity obviously demonstrated its strength with levels of weapons and aerospace technology capable of matching their American counterparts.

There is also the chance of a breakdown of NATO, since the old threat of the Soviet Union has collapsed and evaporated, and the NATO countries expressing their disagreements with the U.S. over abuses of power by attacking Iraq without their consent. The new map of powers in the West may be redrawn with U.S. and Britain in one color while the rest of Europe (excluding Russia) in another.

(Maybe you shouldn't listen to me, I only care about the technology and weaponry...)

Don't hear much about the EU, except when the French whine about losing market protection/job security to other EU nations. Don't care much about the EU either, it seems to be a smaller, just as stagnant, UN.

I find it rather amusing that European countries ramble on about how dominant USA is yet when I look at what the EU is trying to do (e.g. that Internet control thing) it just feels like another US.

I like the idea of a more powerful EU as a conterpart to the US. But I don't like the possibility of eternal three-way war between China, the EU and the US, Orwell-style.

I'll put up some proper reasons when I've done more thinking, at a more godly hour...

The EU is bad ass coz I can live anywhere in the EU :D

I'm with Steveo. And also, last I heard, isn't Russia closing the gaps between itself and the EU? I'm a (true) democrat at heart, so I'm all for mixing people up and immigration etc, so having 20-odd countries having near-domestic discussions can really only be a good thing. I mean, look at France and Germany. AFAIK they're more or less as close as they were pre-1938, when France was Germany's biggest trading partner.

So the EU is a good thing. The simple fact is that currently, no one is willing to go to war against them, not even the USA, so Chiang-san may be a little crest-fallen at that.

Ivan worries about the Eu expansion because more and more of her former colonies (satellite states) are joining the EU and NATO because they still fear Russia. The Ivans worry because they do not have the balance of power in the continent, unlike in the cold War where there were clear destinctions between the East and the West in Europe with the Iron Curtain firmly within Moscow's grasp.

One thing for you all to bear in mind about being able to work anywhere. Thats all very well and good but bear in mind it fucks some people over more than others. since the 10 new eastern european countries joined in 2004 there has been an influx of low skilled migrants to the UK/France/Germany who are cheaper to employ. So they get the jobs and the low skilled people in said countries are fucked cos they cant get a job which increases the wealth gap...

It depends on the EU's intentions

If it uses its unity to share resources for the betterment of its people and joint economies, then its a good idea.

If it uses its unity as a form of power to threaten others and become something like the US then its not a good thing.

It's also useful for students to study abroad within the EU.

Apart from promoting human rights to the Third World, the EU has yet to flex its military muscles like the EU, despite its potential to balance the power.

Explain why a number (about 2000) UK students were denied places at UK universities because their places had been given to EU students.


Thats not right.

*high5* tempy

Well, Hannoir, if you look at it, they're also UK students. the whole purpose is to break down the barriers seperating 'us' and 'them'.

So it's no different to Bobby Jones being denied entry to a BE because he can't make the grade.

I think Hannoir is asking for an idigneous peoples quota..

It is, of course, the fault of the UK for not putting more emphasis on language teaching so that we could go elsewhere, but they shouldnt be letting foreign students in over home students.

And that statement about them being UK students. That scares me..sends shivers down my spine.

What Fez says is right too - it was set up "in the interests of the people in terms of security" but is now just trying to rival the US. Idiots.

PS, yep, I'm Euro skeptic. I'd rather stand in long lines at airports/borders than have the EU.

It's fair if British students got 2000 places in other EU countries... I wouldn't know though.

Yeah, I'm not really a secular person. I don't have anything to hide, except my membership of NAMBLA. And I don't mind immigrants, so I'm at the other end of the spectrum from you, Hannoir.

Integrate, don't differentiate.

I wonder how NZ universities handle this with foreign students taking up seats that might've been used for locals. To be honest, I've never really read of any complaints about internaltional students preventing others from studying the courses they want though.

It's because the vast majority of Kiwis don't want to do CompSci.

Probably because we squeeze so much money out of them.

I've got no problem with immigrants at all - quite the opposite. Its just that the EU hasnt been thought out well enough - labour isnt mobile enough, in that people do not want to leave their countries, and its fucking up the economy.

And its not international students we are dealing with - EU students pay no fees, just like british students. I just think its unfair that people are being denied places in domestic universities because they are better than other universities.

Another problem alot of EU residents have with the EU is that the countries, or member states (we arent countries anymore) are rapidly losing sovereignity, that is they are losing identity and the ability to make any kind of important policy.

i feel as though im coming across as racist. trust me, i have no problems with immigrants. the EU is just fucked up, thats all.

I used to be a sceptic of the EU, until very recently in fact, until I read a lot more about the entire set-up and actually travelled there, which finally converted me to being a Europhile to steal the word your people use for people like me Hannoir :P.

You realise that the fact that there are quite a lot of immigrant students from the EU in the UK means there is a high level of migrant mobility within the EU? Labour mobility is something that you would probably find even more abhorrent, in that huge amounts of Eastern Europeans in the EU would absolutely love to get to Britain, which local nationalists and others would complain would result in 'foreigners stealing our jobs'. Free labour mobility is one thing that even the most hardcore of hardcore free marketeers are often uneasy about, as it will force every country that allows a very high level of labour mobility to totally rethink their entire nation's entire long term policy to make sure they don't lose out from it.

Again, if there was more labour mobility, people who don't like the EU and/or foreigners would say country's would lose even more 'identity' in that you'd have huge amounts of unskilled labour flooding into the UK.

I think that the EU is actually helping to reinforce local identities at the expense of national identities, which in my books is a great thing: local regions now can rebuild their destroyed languages, cultures and pride without the high threat of their national government coming in and saying "No, you must all speak the language that we do in the capital" and then forcing a law down their throats that reduces local autonomy (like Franco in Spain with all the local regions, France with Corsica, Bretagne and the Basques, Italy, Belgium etc) or simply invading a break-away region (like Yugoslavia and it's former countries did a lot to each other). All this is unlikely to happen again because the EU would most definitely be able to intervene and stop bad shit from happening.

In terms of economics, the EU is going to be the greatest thing ever to happen to Europe. When integration becomes a lot stronger after the (or another) new constitution is hopefully fully approved and the nations in the EU have a breather, I think by 2020 the EU will be the world's economic powerhouse, far ahead of the United States and Japan, and infinitely ahead of places like China and India who are supposedly the up-and-comers.

Yea it'll be great for Europe. But the thought of dealing with a massive bloc of countries/markets like that is a little scary. Could you imagine going through our infamous 'Butter Fight' with the UK again, except dealing another twenty-odd countries? Depending on the prevailing attitude, a large number of markets could be sealed off to other countries.

I will be happy if the EU acts as a gateway to the countries involved, as long as it doesn't decide to become 'gate-keeper'.

living in the EU r0x0rs!!!1111! booyah!

The Czechs are cynical about the Czech Republic's joining of the EU. Its costing them a lot to change (eg all motorists have just had to pay to have their numberplates changed to EU numberplates, and then they have to pay for a big 'CZ' sticker to be put on the backs of their cars), and they see little benefit at the moment. Prices are rising (but you can still get dinner in a restaurant for NZ$10 !!!) but the wages aren't rising to match. They're hoping the the wages will soon follow, but there is still a lot of corruption in the government to deal with.
The massive upside to the EU that I have seen is that its really easy to travel between countries. In the old days you would ahve to sit there and empty your car for the customs officers so they could be sure you wern't stealing anything. When I travelled last week the customs officers didn't even look at my passport properly.

thats because I paid them off so you could smuggle that ewok into prague.

Also, hows Europe? bumped into my folks yet?

We miss you

Steveo gave me herpes and I dont know what do do

[/end derail]

hehe no your folks are doing a good job at hiding.

Europe = awesome. group spam coming soon :)

Good to hear your own European experience is kicking the arse, Doctor!