I am personally anti NCEA based on a few principles.

1) it varies from school to school
2) you can resit assessments giving an advantage over other students.
3) it dumbs down the nation.
4) its not as black and white as the percentage system and is quite complicated.

I am not saying that we shoudl bring back the old system how it was, rather I have a few solutions.
1) still have precentages.
2) no scaling.
3) let the student know through report or on their certificate what they are good at and what they aren't (so along with your grade you receive in order the things you are good at).

NCEA gives a false sense of achievement and is not indicative of universitiy so thus is should be changed.

6th form certificate was most indicitive in the old system but the scaling is not necessary, rather it should be grades - either percentage and/or grades.

I was a guinea pig for this and failed! Burn NCEA!!!! :frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated:

Tell us about your experience with NCEA.

I was the last year to do the old system.

ummmm it was very difficult to follow...... hard to acertain how u acheived, and not very well understood by teachers i think....................... But i am very anti the schooling system in NZ

what is wrong with the school system other than NCEA?

I resat 5th form maths under NCEA and it was confusing having all these tests during the year.

maths is a subject that should be assessed at the end of the year with an exam and so is science.

The government has stuffed up big time on this one.

I have a very interesting article from a listener in my bag about schooling in NZ..... I think schools are starting to be treated like business' by B.O.T's and principles.... my old principal traved around asia trying to sell our school to foreign fee paying sudents to afford new classes etc.......

That is wrong, did it work?

It was incredibly stupid when they decided to use teh NCEA system for the scholarship examinations. The whole point of scholarship exams is to see who is the best, no ambiguity, no obscure achievement band crap. Anyone not prepared to be ranked in terms of their skill should not enter it in the first place.

it took the schol exams to really show the tards up there just how ambigous, biased and useless teh NCEA system really is.

They didnt have a fruitfly's clue what they were trying to implement.

Luckily I missed NCEA but everything I've heard about it says that it's shit. Sometimes it sounds like people get awarded completely arbitrarily.

exactly, that is why we need to bring back the old system with the scaling. As painful as it was for many students and many parents, it was a depiction of the real world and university.

This NCEA is designed to benefit minority races and also make people not try as hard.

how do u get its designed for minority races?

Personally, I think we should really wait for a few more years and decide.

Any system will have its flaws when it is initially launched. It certainly will take a few years of researching and tweaking for this system to be come more "stable" (i.e. less variations between schools and across subjects)

Yes, we were the guinea pigs, *BUT* if one studies hard enough, I really don't see why he/she can't pass NCEA.

However, I do think that NCEA has one huge fundamental flaw. It does not really promote competition between top students. Because, when you are essentially only given pass or fail for each component of the subject, it means that people will be more likely just to try and pass, instead of try and achieve the best marks possible.

Kiwi hockey guy, I'm unsure but that is what I"ve heard.

Yes, if it wasn't for competition I wouldn't try hard at university. That is why we need the old system back.

I know why it was launched, because the scaling wasn't an accurate depiction of grades but this isn't either because if people aren't trying as you said then they aren't working to their full capability thus you get a dumbed down effect.


The problem isn't within the implementation of NCEA, the problem is in the system, it is not good in practice and is not good in principle either.

Remember how much you hated the old system but how much you tried to get good grades, we need that back. It shows where you are and hwere you need to improve by being ranked.

Within the old system yu still could have been assessed on individual components during the year, as you were with 6th form certificate. I say have that for the 5th form, 6th form and 7th form.

Then people are still finding out what they are good at and what they are not so good at and they can work on it.

The new system is a joke.

i love the old % is puts everything in perspective 100% is the best and 0% is the worst..... puts more of a definitive answer on a students actual knowledge

NCEA is just begging for corruption. In just its seconds year, we've already have cambridge high. Schools, especially lower decile, arent going to be as stupid, there are many flaw just waiting to be subtley exploited. Not only does this give students a false sense of achievement, but it severely disadvantages the actual high achieving students.

I heard from somewhere that AUS already rejects the NCEA qualification.

:clap: :clap: :clap: I totally agree with you. I mean when at university we get a C, I want to know my exact percentage.

I was crap at maths at school but I have taken a like to stats and working things out, you should have seen me when I totalled my grades in 6th form in order to estimate my grade that I should get. I had a lot of fun printing off the sheets and doing it.

Using percentages shows how much you need to improve on, how much you don't and you can compare to your friends. How can you compare to your friends if you all get excellences? THe simple answer is that you can't, it isn't possible.

Regardless of hating the ranking system when we were in school, we did compare ourselves to friends and if we got a higher mark it made us feel better. Competition brings out the best in everyone, that is why I was the only one who got target at work today, enabling me to finish early.

There are incentives to ranking and to the old system, bring it back.
I don't wnat to think that my children one day will have to do NCEA, mind you, if they did have to I would send them to a private school so they didn't have to endure its crapness.

I love comparing myself to other people....... it is what drives me........ i like to be the best..... so i want to know i got 100% or what ever not a "excellence" which could be anywhere from 85% - 100% for example.........

Exactly and the government has taken away the element of competition.

Its like, you don't play sports for fun, you play sports to win so academia should be the same but they have taken that away.

but i have to admit i would perfer to be told that i got an Acheived as opposed to a 50%............ but i wouldnt b happy with that...... The government are just babying school students...... if u do bad u should be told..... not praised.... My opinion

:clap: :clap: :clap: You and I have very similar thought patterns.

This is the reason a lot of people have a problem with NCEA, we want to see the children to the best they possibly can.

There is nothing worse than being told you got 50%, even 51% is slightly better. Being told you achieved is horrible, when you get 95% you get a kick, I once got 100% at school and got a huge kick.

Also with the current NCEA grading system you are unaware if you are improving or not, this is wrong, because if your grades are staying the same then you are actually doing worse because as the course goes on the work gets harder as your knowledge increases.

I feel sorry for the kids because when they get to university there is going to be no babying, there are going to be percentages used and t is going to be a shock to the system.

Ohhhhh yeah! Uni is a shock to the system alright

and in that case there could be more drop outs than previously.

Do you think its a plan to get people out of university? I mean I did hear what one of the labour mps, trevor mallard said the other day so if that is anything to go by...

NZ has a shocking rate of dropouts for whatever reason......... i dont really know anybody that finished 7th form..... maybe that was howick college's fault! but go to north america (usa and canada) and people dont dare think about dropping out of school............. i do wonder why there is such a stark contrast between these countries..... i wonder what australia is like with regards to dropping out of school....

lol funnily enough I didn't do 7th form. I moved to Auckland, spent a year doing a diploma in advertising and then got admitted to university at 18.

Yes New Zealand does have a high drop out rate and it is something of concern. With the high drop out rate it is no wonder so many people resort to crime, I mean what else have you got to do other than commit criminal activities.

having said that, our parents generation was much worse, they were lucky if they did school certificate.

I know there is a skill shortage in the country but that doesn't mean that teachers shouldn't be trying to keep children in school. The government also needs to start trying to educate the children of the country otherwise we are going to have a very unintelligent welfare reliant country.

I think a reason why people drop out from university (I saw this doco on 60 minutes over summer) and the reason was that they can get a job. Once you have done stage two employers will start considering you and also by that stage you probably know people.

This is another issue, in New Zealand things are who you know not what you know. I find this shocking because the best person for the job may miss out.

that is life though...... its all about networking..... I dont see why you would go as far as stage 2 and not finish....... just seems a waste of time to me.....

One would think but I am pretty sure that by that time you have the skills necessary to do the job. I feel that after this year I could go into the work force and manage a job in radio, journalism or tv presenting. Stage three is all practical as far as I know.

Yes life is about networking but your qualifications should come into play too though.

Also with dropping out after stage two you save about $4000 through not doing those courses.

well if i was hiring somebody for a job and on their cv it said attended uni of akl for 2 years passed these papers blah blah blah, then i ask them what their degree is and they say i didnt actually finish it.... it doesnt draw a very good impression to me. (i have been brought up to finish everything i start) and at the end of the day what is $4000? were all gonna die and you cant take that $4k with you........

Yes I agree that one must complete things but I guess another reason people do not finish degrees is because they start applying in stage three, that is what I am going to do. I will apply for any job at the radio network whom I currently work for so I have a foot in the door to coin a cheesy cliche.

The employer may hire them based on those papers though, if those papers are all the person needs for the job then they would then be hired, some of the time papers are enough to get you a job.

Not finishing things doesn't paint a good picture but as i said...maybe the necessary papers were completed by the student and they are equipped to do the job.

I am very pro education.

why would you want to leave uni for work though? uni is fun...... work sucks!

I can't wait to get into the workforce. I love uni, believe me but as I said, I can't wait to get into the workforce.

I want to be a journalist, radio announcer (talkback) or tv presenter, the sooner I finish studying the soone rI can do wht I have wanted to do since I was 8 years old.

What are you studying?

I guess you can still pick up and finish your degree after you've been working for a wee while eh..

or do it part time.

This is probably the only thing neg about our current govt that I agree with you on.

NCEA is a joke

NCEA :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious:

Do you ever think that the government ever abolish ncea and bring back the old system which they should have just modified before completely doing away with it.

Can you translate this?

liz, no I don't think the government would ever bring back the old system. Dave Benson guy (The education minister) has stated clearly that NCEA is here to stay.

So unless we get another cabinet reshuffle or something, the NCEA situation aint going to change any time soon.

Fez, I was in a hurry to get to work when I posted that in the morning and that is why I left out a word. You also mentioned that this is the only negative comment about the current government that you agree with. This is the only time when I am going to say it, it was a National initiative, this is when Jenny Shipley was in power a few years ago. National stuffed up on the idea. Labour stuffed up on implementing it and therefore no party deserves to be blamed as they are both responsible.

AC La you mean David Benson Pope. I guess nothing will happen with him in cabinet as he will be too busy sleeping. I know that was a cheap shot but I couldn't resist.

I hope to God that something does happen and that they do abolish it and bring in the old system.

It isn't a credible system.