I know this is the kind of topic that can get very heated and oppionated but lets try to keep it to mature and intellectual thought.

I myself will take a neutral stance and only ask questions since I myself have no religion (other than Jedi) I can not motion an oppinion on others.

So what religion do people belong to on this board?

What are your thoughts on others? (Positive thoughts if they can be)

me, none

I think religions in general do help people, but they also add unnecessary prejudices and that makes them do more harm than good.

Agreed, I think War is the main example

What war hasnt been about religion (or Oil for that matter)

I have nothing at all against religious people and i try to respect their beliefs. But as always ( :rolleyes: ) there are some groups that ruin it for the whole. Take Destiny Church for example they are giving all christians a bad name by their fanatical extreme methods and beliefs. Religion on a whole is good and I am someone who supports values and morals (not the Destiny Church meaning of moral tho!). Thats what religion should be about

I have no particular religious leanings other than taking the Lords name in vain.

If I had to describe myself it would be agnostic I guess.

I'm a 'strong atheist'.

Atheism - the religion devoted to the worship of one's own smug sense of superiority.

I'm an atheist. Plain and simple. I accept that people are religious, hell, I'll be friends with religious people, but I hate having it shoved down my throat. That's when I get angry.

Woot so I think we're all in agreement that religion is good so long as it isnt shoved down your throat.

Awesome, damn I was kinda hoping to have people with diversifying religions like Buddahism or something on here, oh well maybe eventually when we get more members

its nice that most NZer now accept the destiny church as a bit of joke. ol' brian and his black rebel motorcycle gang

I hope so, sometimes I think though that people will only air different opinions to spice things up. I have a friend who does that.

No but stats will show you that the more you have the more likely something is to happen.

Its good that we are primarily non christians but aren't the majority of the users of this forum guys at this point in time?

I don't mind if the majority of forum users are guys. Most females tend to say ridiculous crap.

I'm a christian, but I don't shove my beliefs down other peopes throats.
It seems there are a small minority of people out there that give christians as a whole a bad name by trying to evangelise everyone. I say, what people beleive is their choice. I choose to beleive that there is something greater out there - it makes life more whole to me. Everyone has their own reasons.
There are some good things that have come out of religion. The golden rule for example "Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself", "Thou shalt not steal".

It is sad that religion has been used by humans as a reason to start wars. Sometimes I think people should see that it is not the religion that is bad, it is the people who used it as a reason to start a war that began the problems, not the religion itself. The religion was used as a tool, and the tool can be used for GOOD or BAD, depending on who is using it.

Because religions are based on dogma, it has great potential to be mis-used.

A blunt way to put this would be: Religions are born out of human nature, human nature is flawed, therefore religions are flawed.

I've been reading Edward Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. It gives a really good account of the origins of Christianity from an impartial point of view. Its really interesting to see why out of all the world's religions, the Romans chose the Christains to persecute.

the bad apple

I'm intrigued, please tell me more...

Ok the story.

One day, zeus, Amon Ra, Jupiter and co were hanging out at the rome forums. They were happily debating things u debate on forums, including the differences in their religions. They listened to each other's opinions, and they respected each others' differences. Everything was swell.

Then one day, a user by the name of Jesus signed up. The old gang happily welcomed jesus to their discussion. But things soon turned sour. This jesus dude couldn't be hax'd letting the others have their own opinion, everyone had to be like him. He double posted on multiple threads and incited flame wars. Zeus and his mate could no longer put up with him anymore, and before long, jesus was reported to the Admin Caesar. Seeing what this trouble maker was doing to his previously harmonious and intellectual forum, the admin was furious. Jesus was banned.

However this was far from the end. This jesus person created multiple accounts and sign in as self-proclaimed prophets and apostles. The opinions became sharply divided and even noob posters were drawn into bitter flame threads. Admin Caesar could tolerate this no more! It was time for the permenant ban! Jesus's IP was posted online where everyone could see, and in a ceremony before all the other forum whores, Jesus was permenantly banned.

Or so they thought!

A few days later, an unknown user started spamming non-sensical revelations. Soon this was taken up by others and the spammage threatened to bring down the forum servers. Indeed, as many had feared, Jesus was back, along with all his self-righteous possies.

Unable to withstand Jesus's bs, Zeus, Jupiter and pals fled the roman forums. With all the bandwidth now at his disposal, Jesus soon spread his influence far and wide. Before long, everyone wanted to be jesus's bitch. Either that, or they were fucked.

^ lmao


For me:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317648/board/nest/6959501

enuf said.

I love the forum analogy.
I think the Romans had a great system where everyone was free to believe what they wanted, it truely was a great civilisation. Even with all the conquering they did they never imposed much on conquered people, they tended to just pay tax to someone else and keep day to day life.
Although haven't spent that much time studying ancient history so feel free to point out anything I said as blatent lies.

Personally I'm very very atheist. I have nothing against people who are religous, some of my best friends are devoted christians, I even know a guy who's at a seminary. I however hate people who try to convert me or pressure me with their values.

I think it's a pity how some christians give the rest a bad name, my friends are great for respecting my choices and beliefs and I grant them the same favour.

Then we DNS his ass!

I'm Catholic. I have a strong faith but a lot of my beliefs are somewhat unorthodox.

*The world could not survive without religion.*

I disagree with that

If there was some other doctrine that stated

"dont do bad shit, dont be greedy, treat others like youd want them to treat you, use some fucking common sense"

That everyone went by, then I think the world would function probably better than it does today.

In fact thats kind of like the Jedi code I live by. So I guess I do have a religion. Damn I just contradicted myself.

In one way or another, religion would form.

Religions form because human's want to believe that there is something better than their current existance, something they are somehow working towards, something on the otherside of the rainbow. This ideal keeps people going thru the worst of times, maybe its even evolutionary. However once the ideal developes fully into religion, where many are influenced by one opinion, it is all to easy to abuse that trust and misuse that faith for the agendas of a few. As said before, almost all conflicts in history resulted from religious issues, whether over disagreements in doctrine, or as an excuse for the persecution or minorities. That is the downfall of religions in my opinion.

This topic is an interesting one. I personally do not think that religion itself is the cause of the world's problems, however, one cannot deny that many have used religion as a tool to promote their social or political agendas. One does not need to look very far to see examples of this - Alec Hutchinson's article on Al Qaeda in this week's Craccum demonstrates the possible (and likely) 'real' motivation behind bin Laden's public façade of a holy man, fighting for the glory of Allah. Even in New Zealand, we have the same thing, with Brian Tamaki trying to paint the Labour-led government as an secular, immoral anti-Christ - all so Christians are led to believe that without his smiling face this country will turn into an dirty, atheistic hell-hole. Sorry Brian, but the law is about rights for all people, not just the people who agree with your doctrine...

Despite all this, however, I think that religion is an important, and vital, part of human society. It is through the filter of religion that morals are molded, and it is through religion that people create a sense of purpose for their life. Some don't believe religion is important at all, and it is their right to, though some are less than open in their approach; militant atheist Richard Dawkins calls religion an evolutionary "mistake", although the fact religion, in some form, has prevailed in human culture for millenia would cause me to disagree with that statement. It would be foolish to deny that religion (or the use of religion) has caused problems, but every system can be maliciously exploited, no matter whether it is economic, political, or cultural, and I think to paint religion as the main perpetrator is a bit unfair.

As for my own beliefs, I am a Christian, theologically in agreement with the Orthodox sect - the Western (Roman Catholic) church split from the Eastern (Orthodox) in 1054; Orthodox reject the authority of a single leader of the church, and have a different outlook on sin than the West (including Protestants). I am conservative on some issues - I am against abortion; I see sex as holy and only for within long-term, commited relationships; I am against taking drugs for the purpose of getting drunk, stoned, etc. - but I do recognise that many people have different opinions, and although I would actively encourage others to investigate and learn more about my belief system and ethical framework, I would rather lead 'by example' then 'by authority'.

As such, I support the concept of a left-wing, secular (but not anti-religious) government in which all are entitled to, and can freely practise, their respective religions, as long as in doing so they do not infringe on the human rights of other people. I strongly believe the law is about ensuring the rights of all people, regardless of race, creed, religion, ethnicity, etc., and as such I support the legalisation of institutionalised prostitution, and I support the move to allow legal relationships between homosexual and de-facto couples. Many Christians would disagree, but as good old Nandor rather wisely quoted at the Parachute '05 'political forum' (man that was a laugh!) it was Jesus himself who said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's; Give to God what is God's". Jesus wasn't there to cause a huge political uprising; in fact, he didn't want such a thing. He just wanted people to love God, and love each other (regardless of the things they have done), and I don't see how denying people of their basic rights is fostering this love.

As Fez so accurately put it,
"Don't do bad shit, don't be greedy, treat others like you'd want them to treat you, use some fucking common sense."
That's Christianity right there, and I think most religions try to foster the same ideals. Just some people are better at putting it into practise than others...

Peace,
Nick

Well put. =)

I'm a christian, i even joined one of the campus christian groups last year... i was new and fresh out of high school and hoped it would give me a network and kill the lonelyness of big badass uni. i was wrong. Not long after joining and attending a few focus groups the pressure was put on to 'take action'. ie romp round albert park and whack people with bibles. i put it off as long as possible but eventually i thought ah well thier intentions are good, i may aswell go along and see what they do.

i was disgusted.

I had agreed to meet one of the leaders at 12.00, i had just had a metaphysics tutorial on how God cant exist, (which went round in circles untill we found we could neither prove nor disprove God simply by just thinking about it) so i was feeling a little philisophical and not very rightous.

With tracts in our hands and stealthfuly disguised questionaires to hand out we set off for Albert park. My role was to sit and observe the leader as he attempted to save the park from they firey grip of hell. We approached a guy laxing out on the grass who promptly told us to piss off before we could utter a 'how are you'. Next we targeted a young firstyearish looking guy on a bench, he made eye contact so we sat down. The leader started with talking him through the questionaire which asked things like how relevent God was in todays society and such. It soon became clear that our prey was clearly confused and needed God right away when he said things like 'I dont really think there is a higher power, we are all equal with equal chances.' The leader immediately launched into drilling questions asking how he could possible believe in the bigbang and explaining why evolution couldnt be real and that it was foolish to follow the views of 'the world' and science.

At that point my mind left autopilot and said WTF?! It was all senseless crap that probably confused and just pissed the guy off. None of the leaders arguements bore any real substance or point and it got me angry too.

How could he expect this guy to warm to Christian ideas and lifestyles when we were taking to his beliefs and values with a piece of four by two with a cross on it? Needless to say i didnt show up next week at the focus group. I havnt heard from them since.

I wont say which group this was incase anyone is a member and gets offended... also this is a rather bias view since it was just one leader, i am told others arnt like that from a friend who is part of the group. But seriously, this is the kind of stuff that makes me sick.

I am a firm believer in God and Christian values. I hate that whenever i say that i cringe at the thought of what a lot of people see as 'Christian values'. Judging, hating, self rightousness, manipulation, communism (lol).

I think that these days the view of the church and christianity is so tainted that perhaps 'true' Christians can't even be called christians anymore. When introducing himself my pastor doesnt even say he is a leader of a church anymore - simply because people will just stop listening right there. The Christian reputation is falling and its not good.

I wish Christians would be more careful.. by claiming to be a Christian we suddenly represent our entire religion to any who observe us. Like at work in retail, when a customer needs help and goes to you, thier view of the entire company is dependent on the service and knowledge you provide. you fail, you fail the whole company.

I hope my friend is right, and not every leader in that Christian group is like the one i encountered because eventually people will start making signs and stick them up around Albert park saying 'no Christian BS around here plz kthx'

Its sad.

I think the moral of the story is that evangelicism pisses people off. If I wanted to find God i'm fairly sure I would have already.

I'm a firm atheist. I cannot prove that there is no God, frankly no-one can, but I suspect so strongly that there isn't one that I am willing to forgo the intellectual wank of claiming agnosticism and working with emotional rather than logical responses.

The efforts some groups go to to recruit others, rife with fallacy and lies, frankly makes me sick.



You've talked to the Lord? k. Prove it.
You can't? Oh. Well come back and talk to me when you can.

And now for some flamebait (from here):












continued on next page...

Burn sinners!

Religion = codified superstition

That cartoon is talking the same shit I get from the non-denominational-church-going-bible-bashing-self-righteous fuck Christians.

im also an atheist but have nothing against religion as a whole
i think it is a good code of morals and is in essence a good thing but i find that people who have had scripture read into them their entire lives can be incredibly narrow minded and although they say they see clearly they seem blind. My friend told me last night he was a strong christian and i was suprised and dissapointed that he didnt beleive in evolution and thought that people of other religions, even if they were moral, were still evil and deserved to burn in hell. I felt quite sad for him really.

What religion tries to do is good but over the years with all the various added rules and all that its changed from what it originally was.
well thats my thoughts anyway.

To quote Billy Connolly:

"You don't see agnostic knocking on people's doors and saying "You there...stop believing everything!" Furthermore you don't get militant agnostics..."and if you don't stop believing, I'll burn a huge fuckin question mark onto your front lawn!"

I'm completely non religious for so many reasons. That's not to say I don't get on with religious people, I work with some, study with some, and am friends with some.

As others have said, I HATE it when they try to force their beliefs on me though. I don't harp on to them about how there is no god, so I don't think they should harp on to me about how there is.

One of the interesting things for me though, is how people 'convert' from one religion to another. All it says to me is that they aren't taking it seriously at all...

Jack Chick. The kind of guy whose literature makes me understand why people want nothing to do with Christianity, or any religion for that matter. And with sentiment like that, its hardly suprising. Of course, the irony is that well over 75% (if not >90%) of Christians would vehemently disagree with everything he has to say...

As for evolution, well snowman sums it up completely. Yet it is taught in many churches around that evolution is anti-biblical and evil, and that people in these churches are never actually told what evolution is doesn't help. What is probably more repulsive is the explanations that they are given for why the earth appears the way it does (go to http://www.icr.org if you don't know what I mean). I guess when someone's faith is challenged, they react to it in certain ways, including making up and propogating lies about scientific knowledge. The fact that Pope Jean Paul II was an evolutionist makes a pretty strong point (imo) that evolution doesn't contradict the Bible, but that reasoning doesn't work with most evangelicals - he was Catholic... :(

To sloanie; awesome quote, I think it sums it up well. Personally, I think evangelism is not a bad thing, but there is no doubt that the tactics (and they are tactics) used by many Christians are malicious, and dishonest. I was approached by a member of a club-that-shall-remain-nameless the other day, who attempted to get me to join their club. I am contemplating it, but I can't help feeling that if they find out I'm Orthodox they'll give me a big spiel on why I should stop 'praying' to saints or something...

To El Marko, it is a common sentiment, and probably many Christians feel the same, with people telling you "you aren't a real Christian unless...". As for conversion, it may seem strange from an atheistic perspective. That said, for someone who believes in a god, trying to find the 'truth' about the spiritual world is an important aspect, as naturalistic truth is important to a scientist. As such, people will often convert when they think that they have been doing things 'wrong', or they think there is truth in another religion. From this perspective, I would argue they probably are taking it seriously, although if people just change because they think a different religion would be "cool" or something, then I would probably agree with you.

Just my rather extended $0.02...

There's a box of tui in it for anyone who can top the Jamestown mass suicide...evidence of your leadership of your cult must be sent on VHS format.

My 2 cents: if it's such a huge decision who you follow or who you worship, then as a mere mortal, who am I to decide? I reckon if I try not to piss too many people off, my chances are pretty good. A bit like playing the Brumbies. If you take it one play at a time, and break Gregans's leg, you should be sweet.

Actually on reflection, it's nothing like playing the brumbies. Who cares, the Blues won this morning!

My religion is science...

God is energy, energy is god, mass is energy, mass is god, humans are mass, humans are god (well more accurately, humans are an infinitesimal part of god).

Generally speaking:
'Religion' means control...
Most religion is not good because it deviates from enlightenment principles of thinking for yourself. Morals and ethics were around well before religion, it is called 'philosophy'.

Jesus christ was an antiauthoritarian militant philosopher, all post christ 'christianity' is distorted propaganda that Jesus would have despised.

Buddhism is a very vague word, certain aspects of buddhism are more about philosophy than religion. I believe it was when buddhism was introduced to china that it became more about worship and religion than philosophy.

I am nominally Catholic but very much liberal on matters that the Church normally comes down very hard on - such as abortion, contraception, female or married priests, and the value of other religions.

I'm actually not sure whether I count as Catholic or not, since the only thing that still really attracts me to Catholicism after getting so Enlightened at university is the relaxation it can provide if you're in the right frame of mind. I do still take what I hear critically - see above. Church can be a very restful place, and it's sometimes nice to get completely away from the rest of the world for an hour a week.

Easter is the best time to go as far as I'm concerned. Even though services are much longer than an hour, they are rich in ancient symbolism which I love. A darkened church - one burning candle - and the intoxicating and mystical scent of incense, which only comes out about once a year. It's just special. I think if God smells like anything, it'd probably be much like that incense.

Plus the drama of the Easter story, which I still find very affecting even after years and years of attending Mass. The Crucifixion itself is terrible, but there are layers of nobility and love that Mel Gibson's snuff-flick version completely missed. I don't attend mass for weeks at a time on occasions, but I feel I've missed something very special if I miss Easter services.

I am experimenting with Buddhist thought as well. I like the idea of an impermanent world and impermanent self, and the idea that abandoning your fixation on your own ego could free you from a lot of your suffering. The idea of karma makes sense - your negative actions causing people to act negatively, spreading bad karma that will come back to bite you - and vice versa, hopefully!

Being a good Buddhist - it really is more of a philosophy than a religion - would go a long way to making you a better Christian, or a better person, which is much the same thing. And dogma be damned, if there is a heaven, good people get there, religion or not.

I began my stint at uni training to be a Protestant Christian minister. I'm now an atheist by most people's standards. I'm also a Nietzschean anarchist with Buddhist personal-identity metaphysics combined with a Heideggerian syntheism for practicality. Sometimes I smoke cigars.