The ideal notion of "one law for all" is all fine and dandy and is being spouted as bible by :brash:, bringing racial politics into forefront.

Personally i think its a load of crock and by using the this type of politics is divisive and harmful to race relations in New Zealand. However, i see people (who are smart) subscribing to this ideal notion and yet i can see that one law for all will NEVER exist. Its like subscribing to the notion of world peace. Beauty pageant contestants have been spouting world peace as what they wish for. Will world peace ever happen? No..its just an happy ideal notion that people would like to think could happen. Therefore, i can not see how people can use this notion of "one law for all" as a reason to place your vote in. I talked to someone whom i consider to be quite smart and yet i was surprise to learn that this was something that she was considering to place her vote and yet i'm flabbergasted on how someone can't see this isn't constructive at all.

Race relations are ALWAYS going to be a touchy subject, healthy discussion should always be encouraged but by pitting races together, especially in order to gain power does not spell well for the future. I can even see that New Zealand could practically operate a system like apartheid by denying Maori the right to be represented in certain ways.

The Khmer Rouge operated on the principle that all people were to be equals, with equal staus and as we all know that was a load of crock.

Say National gets into power and abolishes the Maori seats, Maori scholarships etc, then would it be one law for all if scholarships are offered to women in particular fields to enter? Equality will never happen, the rich will not be equal to the poor, women will not be the same as men etc. What makes getting rid of the moari seats and waitangi references create an equal society to live in? If everyone was subscribing to this nature of equality, then would New Zealand start moving towards policies that will ultimately make it a country that actually has several laws for all?

I know that i'm not doing this argument any justice but i would like to hear views on this topic....

It's a crock of shit. Brash is talking about bringing the nation equality when Maori are disadvantaged to being with - National's policies will only make the inequality greater.

I dont like the idea how the kid who throws things off the motorway over-bridge and kills someone is entitled to more than I am.

But at the same time, there are plenty of needy whities who aren't eligible to the same benefits they would be had they been born maori.

It's a toughie. Maori needed social recognition, and so the current regime should stay...but there needs to be a hell of a lot of tweaking done before I'm happy.

As my economics lecturer says we want equity not equality. The difference being equity means everyone gets given the same opportunities wheres equality is where everyone is the same. Abolishing the maori seats is a logical thing to do coming from their view point. Personally I dont see the harm in keeping them, they do no harm and do give Maori an opportunity to have a more influential opportunity in parliment.

I would, at least at some point in the future, want to see the abolition of Maori seats, I do not believe the laws of a society should favour one race or culture over another, it leads to bad things. There will never be equality in a society, but that does not mean inequality should be imbedded into the law.

Whether that should happen now or later is another question, there may be justifications for keeping it in place for the time being.

I think making two standards is segregation in its purest form. Seggregation can be both dissadvantagous and advantageous, the adventageous being "reverse racism" i still dont think that colour of skin or ethnic identity should win u rights over others, specially in a multicultural potporri such as new zealand.

i think maori should have recognition as the natives of new zealand. but as far as extra rights and wot not i dont think its approriate for a group that is based on self identity. i think im right in saying legally maori is self identified, meaning anyone who chooses can identify themselves as maori and be entitled to the rights.

no segregation, no "other" group to discriminate against.

But i dont think national is going about it the right way, its way too black and white (excuse the pun) for them, and they'll just fuck it up with don the biggot calling the shots.

National's policy toward Maori seats is pathetic divisive racism, just like what Hitler did in Germany to get to power.

Maori seats, just as ALL parties apart from ACT and National agree, should be abolished when Maori themselves agree to it.

I strongly support National plans to abolish the Maori seats. If we're going to have Maori seats, why not have Pacific Island seats and Asians seats?! Brash aims to enhance racial unification (we're all NZers, well those with citizenship and passports at least), and curb this political correctness and racial separatism.

(Do you liberals have anyone more insulting and cliched than Hitler to compare with current rightist leaders in the West?)

What the fuck? I am not a supporter of Liberal theories of government that the ACT party supports, nor the Liberal party in Australia. I'm a left winger, Adolf, not a liberal like Don Brash.

It amazes me that people still try and couch Brash's racist populism that is directly designed to appeal to ignorant whites who want more power with nice and lovely pro-racial unity language.

I invoke Godwin's Law.

Then technically Adolf Chiang loses all arguments before they have even started.

I like your thinking Oob. Incidentally, I win.




ps. Jews. ahahahah.

It scares me you know things like that Oob

You know what else is scary? This:

...yes...yes it is...

The Maori activists are the ones who are being racist by claiming special priveleges above everyone else in this country. They use their history and skin color to a certain advantage.

What Brash believe in is equal rights for all. How about this? Let's not scrap the Maori seats and include everyone on the Maori electoral roll too! All day you goddamn leftist scum call Brash a racist while many Asians also prefer to vote National. Real White supremacists prefer Maoris over Asians.

By claiming that Brash's rhetoric resembles that of Hitler's, that's just some of the lamest Pinko propaganda I've ever seen. Hitler and most of his party hated Jews and wanted them deported or dead since day one. No politicial in the National Party has expressed the same level of hatred towards the Maori, but instead attempts to correct their political wrongs and make the country a better place.

I agree that there are Maori extremists that take things too far. I think they cause problems rather than resolve them and we shouldn't give much heed to these extremists. Be that as it may, most Maori are not radicals or unreasonable. It is all the Maori people that will be effected by a majority vote consisting of white people, not just a few bad apples. It's not racist to ask for representation in Parliament. What we have are Maori electorates where they can choose to enrol in if they choose to. The Maori seats are proportional to the amount of people enrolled in those electorates. Ie. if no or barely any Maori enrol in that electorate, there is no need for those seats. Seeing many Maori today still choose to vote this way, they shouldn't be restricted from doing so. After all we live in a democracy.

Should this basic right be taken away from them, I forsee the Maori party will become ten times more radical than it already is, and the people of the defunct electorate will flock to them. More who were never in that electorate to begin with but feel alienated anyway will probably join them too. Is that what you want? Do you think it's a good thing that in creating this policy National paid no attention to the fact that the only dissenting voice regarding it that came from within their ranks was from a Maori?

Do you have any evidence to back this up? I'd naturally deduce that "Real White supremacists" only prefer whites over non-whites.

Anyway, fortunately Nationals policy is a minority view. They won't be able to pass legislation through parliment that would do away with Maori seats because they obviously won't get confidence votes from United Future

From my own experiences with racism, it appears that Whites tend to favor Maoris (which in their racism, they still view as inferior) over Asians over some basic reasons:

- Asians are academic, they're are afraid that high paid jobs will be lost
- Asians are generally more hardworking
- Large numbers of Maori and Islanders with low level of education are perfect for labour intensive work like in the construction industry.


As for the idea of stirring up Maori radicalism, other than abolishing the Maori seats, declaring NZ a republic may have similar effects, one of their final examples of submitting to the Crown is broken. It is possible that NZ will become a republic in our lifetime, but that's not an issue of importance.

I imagine white supremacists would prefer Maoris over Asians because the former are more likely to be part white.

You took the words right from my mind. I was afraid of being labelled a racist for saying that.

I don't give two shits if anyone here is stupid enough to think I'm racist. Science does not bear out racist theories, and I am fiercely pro-science.

We just don't like asians because they smell funny and talk different.

So in your view Asians are a smarter and harder working race, while Maori and Pacific Islanders (and supposedly other various dark skinned races) are only good for manual labour, with Europeans lurking somewhere in between? Where do Indians, Arabs and Latinios fit in?

I suppose that how White racists stereotype Asians and Indians as hardworking and smart (well many Asian kids top the dux boards at school in recent years), where as the stereotypical Maori would be like those on Bro' Town. It's the work ethics that Asian peoples (Middle Eastern, Oriental, Indian) adore that White people fear.

Quoted for truth

Also Adolf, were you born here?

Well, the truth may surprise you. Despite a genuine Kiwi accent, I've only been living here for a decade. I find it deeply offensive that I'm not considered a NZer or a Kiwi. In fact, I'm very patriotic towards the flag.

Can we amend this law with an NZ corrollary, which says that if 'cigar bars' are mentioned in a discussion about civil liberties, the person who raised the topic is immediately downtrou-ed?

You'd have to make a new law for that. Godwins Law is only there to stop the following scenario:

Person A: "I hold such and such a position"
Person B: "I hold the position opposite to yours"
Person A: "Oh yeah?! Well... you're a Nazi!!1!1"

Yeah? The entry in wikipedia suggests that the law can be ammended.

Person A: I want to be in government!
Person B: But your policies are greedy, divisive, and ethnocentric!
Person A: Cigar Bars!!

Seems to be happening with increasing frequency...

Well you'll have to talk to Mr Godwin about it.

A couple of girls who went to my school, who *topped* their University Entrance exams for the entire Maori population of their respective years, were half Chinese, half Maori. And they got awards each for being the Top Maori. Kia Ora!